Is INF all about 5.56 Assault Rifles?

[Logan6]

You know you people who have no arguements and only insults just emphasize that you have no knowledge to give. Which is why I don't believe any glowing claims you give about yourself and generally just ignore you.

 

[geogob]

Well, Duke, my problem with the M4 is its recoil. It seems to have none, therefore giving you uber accuracy and firepower.

You must be kidding right? did you read duke's last post... congrats on looking like a freaking retard.

It doesn't compare well to the M16A2 ingame which has a far greater recoil.Therefore, people with the M4 can snipe better than people with the longer barreled M16A2, and I have seen this in game, people sniping at distance on full auto with the M4.

How funny! yesterday I got killed a few times by a sniper on full auto... with a sig551 + acog. Lets go start a thread to whine about SS's sig551, that crazy fullauto uberweapon...

The guns need to be equalized in recoil (or made as real as possible ), either one way or the other, because right now one kicks like crazy while the other kicks not at all.

Welcome to the wonderfull world of we don't care. Sentry Studios as openly admited that their weapons are ballanced for gameplays so that Muffers don't run out crying "Mommy, my gun isn't as good as his...". We decided NOT to do that, trying to give a real life like feeling to the weapons. I'm sure you can understand that we are not Sentry Studios and that we can decide by our own how we want our weapons to be modelled. If you don't agree, well go play on servers that don't use the pack. If you can't find any, then maybe it's a sign.

But the idea of equalizing the recoil in a game that advertises the slogan "This is as real as it gets" is just plain stupid. If you want to run around and shoot people with balanced weapons, then go play Counter Strike or Desert Combat.

The major problem here is that we have two teams with different ideas about how the weapons should be, and the weapons are being mixed in game causing some bad imbalances.

Well, get over with it! Because if you can't live with somethings as simple or even understand that, I'm sure you'll have fun going through your first real life problems. Remember... the day you'll commit suicide because your hamster died, try to keep it clean for whom ever will find you.


I'll finish by quoting the readme that was released with the weapon pack...

isclaimer
----------
The members of the Infiltration Mod Team create these weapons solely for their own interest and enjoyment. The weapons in this pack will NOT be updated unless any major show-stopping bugs occur, as the team is now working on other projects and aren't interested in whether some people think a weapon is unrealistic. If you don't like them, don't use them. If you really don't like them, ask the server administrators to disable them. None of the members of the Infiltration Mod Team can be held responsible if your computer explodes while using this weapons pack, if you get beaten up over an argument on whether the weapons are realistic, or under any other circumstances.

Now can we please come back on the topic. A stupid thread about this weapon pack was already started. Stop being a dork and hijacking serious threads for no reasons.

 

[geogob]

You know you people who have no arguements and only insults just emphasize that you have no knowledge to give. Which is why I don't believe any glowing claims you give about yourself and generally just ignore you.

Ok you win. I give up. We don't know ****. Congratulations.

 

[gal-z]

Yeah please let's keep discussion serious.
I've actually noticed M16A2 has a bit LESS recoil than the M4A1 and M16A4, shooting in SEMI auto and seeing how much it jumps up. I'm saying M16A2 and probably many other weapons in the game are wrong (if they got M16A2 wrong it's reasonable to assume other weapons may be wrong too). When I shoot standing up at a target at 50m, the sight picture goes completely off-target, and not only up, but to the side as well. Since the rifle is in the right sholder, when it pushes your shoulder back your rifle basically turns right a bit, not only going up (for similar reasons). Of course the distance it goes is much greater IRL than it is in-game.
If you fix recoil in game, possibly with a "recoil fix" mutator, people would actually stop using full auto since it'll be ineffective, same as IRL, as well as rapid fire to over 50 meters.

 

[geogob]

Yes, but full auto still would be interesting. it depends how you use it. They key is to fire short burst I guess. It works for me anyways.

 

[gal-z]

Yes, but full auto still would be interesting. it depends how you use it. They key is to fire short burst I guess. It works for me anyways.

The problem is full auto is effective right now simply because weapons have really really low recoil.

 

[})FA|Snake]

actually, i had nothing to do with the M4, i offered my input, other than that, someone else modelled it, someone else skinned it, and someone else coded it, there IS a WHOLE TEAM working on these weapons guys ;P

Maybe I should clarify that statement as I was kinda rushing when I made that post, I was was trying to say the recoil/handling was your design. Which if isn't true I must feel a bit indignant as you told me exactly that.

Ghost, my point is just being a cop does not make someone a good source, with the expection of armourers and such. Most cops are well versed in the operation of their service weapon, but beyond that any knowledge comes from a personal intrest in the material, which isn't any different from your avaerage civillian recreational shooter. The one cop I know who really knows his stuff is the local armourer/instructer, former SWAT guy. Really cool guy, really knows his stuff, was having a conversation with him about the serious wounding problems with 9mm (had shot a guy twice in the head with a 9mm Glock, both bullets lodged in the skull and the guy didn't even slow down.), as a result the local department is switching over to a .40S&W SIG (P228?).

 

[Logan6]

The problem is full auto is effective right now simply because weapons have really really low recoil.

Yeah, thats my problem with the M4. Either the new M4 is right and the M16A2 has too much recoil, or the M16A2 is right and the M4 has too little recoil. I've qualified on the range with M16 on semi-auto, so I know how it shoots. Personally, I think the recoil of the new M4 is too little but SS M16A2 is a little too high, so somewhere in the middle. So I agree that maybe when we can get in agreement with what should be right, maybe someone could come out with a recoil mutator to set everything right?

 

[mat69]

Note: I don't have any Real Life experience, so I'm just posting my thoughts.

I don't think that there is too less recoil, try to fire the whole magazine of any assault rifle in INF while you are standing without mouse holding back, you will notice that you are looking into the air now.
But I think that you can influence the recoil with your mouse too much without any or bearable side effects. So I think adding a side twist - as rav2 did if I remember correctly - especially to the right side as gal-z has pointed out would make auto-sniping harder.RAV3 *hint*
You should have the more side twist the more you pull down your mouse, this would result in accurate short bursts but in inaccurate results if you are fireing more than [insert a number here] shoots in a row.
This side twist should be greater if you are [insert correct posture here] as it is in reality.
I can only say that I used Semi-Auto on the M16A2 in 2.86 with RAV2 pretty often, now with the same weapon - I am one of those guys not using this "über" M4A1 but using "sucking" weapons like MicroUzi, M16A2 ... - I am using only burst automatic and I hardly ever switch to Semi or Burst with the Sig 551.

 

[{GD}Ghost]

Ghost, my point is just being a cop does not make someone a good source, with the expection of armourers and such. Most cops are well versed in the operation of their service weapon, but beyond that any knowledge comes from a personal intrest in the material, which isn't any different from your avaerage civillian recreational shooter. The one cop I know who really knows his stuff is the local armourer/instructer, former SWAT guy. Really cool guy, really knows his stuff, was having a conversation with him about the serious wounding problems with 9mm (had shot a guy twice in the head with a 9mm Glock, both bullets lodged in the skull and the guy didn't even slow down.), as a result the local department is switching over to a .40S&W SIG (P228?).

I would most likely agree with you there, Snake13. But I would also say that most cops don't know as much about their weapon, let alone others as they should. Our department instructor/armorer was a Marine from the Vietnam era and was a really gruff, but a real cool dude as long as you followed his training and instruction and took care of your weapon well. He once threatened that if we didn't start keeping our weapons in better condition (cleaning regularly), he put his foot so far up our asses we'd feel like we'd been ****ed with an elephant dick. And that is pretty much his direct quote.

Also, that would be the Sig Saur P229 .40, which is what our department uses and THAT, i definately know a little about. Its a very smooth weapon. I love it. I plan on owning one personally.

 

[gal-z]

So why am I feeling M16A2 has even less recoil than M4A1? Both weapons, along with other weapons in the game, have incredibly low recoil compared to RL.

 

[})FA|Snake]

Also, that would be the Sig Saur P229 .40, which is what our department uses and THAT, i definately know a little about. Its a very smooth weapon. I love it. I plan on owning one personally.

Ah yes, that was it, I took my training course with that gun. It was very nice, though I was suprised, being someone who had never held a handgun before it felt very bulky in my hands, the revolver fit like a glove though. My only complaint would be I remeber I had trouble reaching the slide eject with my thumb, still a nice firearm, would consider purchasing one when I turn 21 (yes in the PRM handguns are Ilegal until you turn 21). Maybe it was just me but I never realized automatics were so bulky before I had that experiance, can understand why alot of people prefer revolvers for a carry-piece.

Unfortuneatly my recreational shooting has been all but derailed because I used all the money I was going to use for it to get into paintball instead.

 

[OICW]

Maybe I should clarify that statement as I was kinda rushing when I made that post, I was was trying to say the recoil/handling was your design. Which if isn't true I must feel a bit indignant as you told me exactly that.

Ghost, my point is just being a cop does not make someone a good source, with the expection of armourers and such. Most cops are well versed in the operation of their service weapon, but beyond that any knowledge comes from a personal intrest in the material, which isn't any different from your avaerage civillian recreational shooter. The one cop I know who really knows his stuff is the local armourer/instructer, former SWAT guy. Really cool guy, really knows his stuff, was having a conversation with him about the serious wounding problems with 9mm (had shot a guy twice in the head with a 9mm Glock, both bullets lodged in the skull and the guy didn't even slow down.), as a result the local department is switching over to a .40S&W SIG (P228?).

What ammunition for the 9mm was he using? It sounded like someone chose one of the less than stellar performing 9mm rounds.

 

[MP_Duke]

I know a few people who have shot infantry issued M16s, M4s, and MP5s. They all said they can stabilize recoil effect more efficiently in real life.

So why am I feeling M16A2 has even less recoil than M4A1? Both weapons, along with other weapons in the game, have incredibly low recoil compared to RL.

 

[NoFate]

To Ghost- I think you hit the nail on the head man. In the real world, modern firearms developers don't design guns that are balanced for recoil, firepower, or whatever so that the guy holding the POS-gun has a fighting chance. They design (pay close attention) firearms that are better than what is currently available. And small companies all over the world come up with new ways to improve the functionality of older firearms to extend their usefulness all the time. Sure there are firearms manufacturers that DO build POS guns, or just reuse old designs with a new look or maybe new materials. But I don't think you'll ever see someone waste their time trying to make a Lorcin or Llama for INF. Point being, as we implement more modern weapons into INF, just expect that they will be better. Because they are.

- NF

 

[gal-z]

As for recoil, I still think it's too little. Are you sure the guys who said they can stabilize recoil better in RL than in-game played the game enough? After some practice with the game, you can get many shots in your target using very rapid fire at 50m+, while IRL even the SF soldiers train to shoot that rapidly at 10-15m, and never really above 30 meters. When I shoot at standing position with my M4A1 on a 50m target the sights go like 0.5-1 meter off target after the first shot is fired. Of course, when well trained, you'll bring the sights back to target very very fast, but that works the same as moving them back to target with the mouse, which is now too easy due to very low recoil.
It's a known fact that most real soldiers never use full-auto in battle.