Is INF all about 5.56 Assault Rifles?

[Rostam]

Then it's still pretty vague to me what you mean, could you specify?

 

[{GD}Ghost]

I think we definately need a full sized AK variant. I'm completely suprised that no one is working on one......to my knowledge. Please prove me wrong.

 

[NTKB]

The AKMSU seems like the smallest problem to me (its allmost as good as the AR's and it rocks in CQB)

Its the shotties, the MP5, and a little the SAW and the UZI that can't keep up.... not mentioning pistols that aren't supposed to be very usefull on the battlefield

I must digress Nuke, because if we are gonna make custom weapons which are based on realism, which is cool we should also "fix" the older weapons. This means all of them. Should be too hard either I fancy since the models, animations etc are allready done. Alls you need to do is fix the script no?

 

[Arethusa]

Wow geogob, let me think... Oh here is a thought, how about in a conflict there are always 2 sides. And as we can see right now during these times of elected warmongers, only one side uses 5.56mm rifles.

So I guess all those stories about Somalis carrying M16s in Mogadishu are lies, eh?

 

[Bushwack]

someone is working on a full sized AK variant, patience....and no whining.

 

[Rostam]

So I guess all those stories about Somalis carrying M16s in Mogadishu are lies, eh?

I'm talking about the war against terror and all the conflicts that started over that.
But yes, alot of 'evil terorrists' get their weapons from the side they are fighting. Palestinians do the same. But that's still just a second example of a conflict in the last 10 years where one side was not using eastern block / asian weapons.

 

[Arethusa]

There's no doubt that Eastern bloc weapons are very popular, but free is free, and we gave the Afghans tons of Stingers and M16s a while back. They still have them, even if AKs are more popular. I'm not saying I wouldn't like to see a real AK in game or that AKs aren't used by forces most likely to be encountered by a first world military power; I'm just saying that it's not as simple as Good Guys with M16s v. Bad Guys With AK47s.

 

[Rostam]

Espescially since alot of good guys use C7's and alot of bad guys use AKM's

Bah I see it as nitpicking though, if you look at the INF armory you will see it is almost entirely consumed by western block weapons, most of which firing the 5.56mm. I just gave an example (in an assholy way, that I admit) of why it shouldn't be 5.56 vs 5.56 all the time.

 

[Arethusa]

It is nitpicking, I admit, but I felt the clarification was worth it. You'll get no disagreement from me that all 5.56 all the time gets more than a bit bland and is not strictly realistic; it's just not accurate to say it's strictly unrealistic either, though I'm getting the impression you don't disagree there. More semantics than anything else, I suppose.

 

[Nukeproof]

I must digress Nuke, because if we are gonna make custom weapons which are based on realism, which is cool we should also "fix" the older weapons. This means all of them. Should be too hard either I fancy since the models, animations etc are allready done. Alls you need to do is fix the script no?

well before refering to my personal opinion (which might agree with you) I would take Beppo's word who specifically asked the community not to change the SS weapons (that's probably the reason why we have a M16A4 at all).

I think we owe 'em too much to piss 'em off

 

[Arethusa]

It's worth honoring, though I personally wonder why the request was made in the first place.

 

[Nukeproof]

The question that remained unanswered (to you weapon experts):

Is IIIa penetrating ammunition available IRL for SMGs beside the P90? (i.e. for any MP5 or UZI variant)?

 

[Meplat]

Currently? I'd say yes. I'm uncertian if the French THV line is still made, but it would most likely poke neat holes in armor. Then there was (and may still be) the nasty Czech M52 AP round.

With few exceptions, assume if there is an armor made, there certianly someone making or working on a way to poke holes in it.

 

[chuckus]

Wow... one of most civil and interesting threads I've read in a long time. Where's the flaming? I have marshmallows to roast

 

[- Lich -]

I am no weapons guru, but what about a hk pdw / mp7. Quite a new weapon, and the 4.6x30mm rounds are armorpiercing. They shall even perform better than 5.7 FN.

 

[geogob]

Intersting. i didn't know so few ammo type where made for smg capable of piercing a class IIIa. Maybe it could be easy to bring in game new ammo types like yurch did with the 40 mm.

Now, this brings me to the question that logically follows... if there is armor piercing ammo available for smgs. whould there be a reason not to used it? Would everyone run around with it and never use standard ammo? So the question is... if tou shoot armor piercing rounds at an unarmored personal... what effect doest it have on wounding and such? Would it take more hits to put someone on the floor if he his not wearing armor? How could this be implemented in INF?

 

[ant75]

Which brings another question to mind : if you add more and more armor piercing ammo for every type of gun, will armors become obsolete in INf ? I wouldn't mind that, since ive always been kinda opposed to the concept, but still, one may wonder if SS didn't put too much effort in implementing a new feature that everybody doesn't seem to like.

 

[ninjin]

hmm... i would think that these types of AP rounds were "exotic" and generally not standard issue, which would be limited to several weapon types (ie MP5 or Uzi variants only). I *think* since im no weapon guru or gun-buff or bullet-scientist, the rounds would not fragment or expand unlike JHP and act more like the 4.7 type rounds (more hits to take down, but penetrates armour).

would be interesting to see a revival of the MP5 with AP rounds, but like any other weapon, all new weapons have a frenzy of being used then people go back to their favored weapon. So i think it would be best to wait a bit until the "testing new guns" craze has died down before seriously getting down to it.

 

[Blitzschlag]

I am no weapons guru, but what about a hk pdw / mp7. Quite a new weapon, and the 4.6x30mm rounds are armorpiercing. They shall even perform better than 5.7 FN.

Nice Idea i make A MP7 now, u've got me, i must waste my time!

 

[geogob]

I guess that one problem with armor piercing rounds is that they are expensive. I saw somewhere that the M903 slap round cost about 7$ an unit. That would be much more expensive then the M2 ball cartrige. I don't think a pricing system should be introduced (or should I say, re-introduced for oldtimers like me). Nevertheless the quatities of such ammunication that one can take could be limited (e.g. a supply limit). If you can take only one mag or two of armor piercing rounds due to "supply limits", it would still give use to normal ammo and to amor. Furthermore people would think more before using a specific ammunition and spamming could be reduced. Or is the slap round used for supressing fire?

On the wounding point I just noted... I've red in the "black hawk down" book (which is very good but I don't consider it the best information source though) that the armor peircing rounds where not so effective against soft targets and for this reason, special forces used other times of rounds and weapons that are not standard issue, to be more effective against soft targets. Maybe someone could confirm this... I wondered for a long time now if this was actually what happend and how much of it is true.