Impracticality of AKMSU
- Thread starter Crito
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Sweet. A fight between a self-proclaimed verbal ninja and a pretentious ******* who believes he does the community a service by being one.
Both of you can go jump off a bridge. Stop polluting this forum which is supposed to be about killing each other in new and delightful ways.
Both of you can go jump off a bridge. Stop polluting this forum which is supposed to be about killing each other in new and delightful ways.
Hurray 2 egomaniacs in the arena ... pass the popcorn ...
Take it to OT or sort it out with PMs
I for one am interested in the weapon related discussion, not personal pissing contests.
Crito you're new here, so welcome.
Jaunty may have an obnoxious attitude but knows his guns and posts interesting information. Ignore the obnoxiousness and stick to the info. You claim to have the necessary brain power to do so.
Peace
<---((ITA))SHIVA
P.s. could someone post a link to an ammunition nomenclature and classification explanation please.
Take it to OT or sort it out with PMs
I for one am interested in the weapon related discussion, not personal pissing contests.
Crito you're new here, so welcome.
Jaunty may have an obnoxious attitude but knows his guns and posts interesting information. Ignore the obnoxiousness and stick to the info. You claim to have the necessary brain power to do so.
Peace
<---((ITA))SHIVA
P.s. could someone post a link to an ammunition nomenclature and classification explanation please.
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Crito, I don't know where you got the idea forums were made for peaceful and productive discussions. Wherever you look, you'll only see rants and flames. Not only here, not only on game forums and not only on "weapon" forums. Jaunty sure is a bit more aggressive than the average user, but his posting methods (sadly) reflect the posting of a good part of the community.
Welcome to the Internet
@randomas: you should ask an Admin to change your name to ((ITA))SHIVA
Also, for ammunition nomenclature start with the Inf armory. This way you'll look like you know what your talking about
Otherwise, try the link already posted here, and have a look at this site: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/index.html
It's probably not as detailed as many other sites but it's a start (and there are pictures too!)
Welcome to the Internet
@randomas: you should ask an Admin to change your name to ((ITA))SHIVA
Also, for ammunition nomenclature start with the Inf armory. This way you'll look like you know what your talking about
Otherwise, try the link already posted here, and have a look at this site: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/index.html
It's probably not as detailed as many other sites but it's a start (and there are pictures too!
)I'm not a self proclaimed verbal ninja thunder, and I never claimed to be some sort of master of anything. The only thing I am, is better at ripping other peoples arguments apart than most, so don't try to put words in my mouth.
Not to mention, and no offense, but just because your a 3d artist, doesn't nessecarialy put you in a possition to judge the value of either of us in relation to this argument (not to mention, you didn't really say much of anything other than calling us weird names, you gave no solution to the problem either (the problem being the posting strategy of jauntry anywhere)).
However, lets just avoid this whole problem. From now on, I'll try to PM meplat, rather than continue posting in this thread since its getting out of hand. That way, I don't have to deal with jauntry's insults, I can get clear information from meplat, and I don't have to worry about public board space being occupied over a public matter that may arise (not to mention, I can avoid being kicked from the forums, which, very well be the result of me speaking my mind in public, whether I am right or wrong).
Now jauntry is happy, thunder is happy, I am happy, and meplat might be happy to since he's getting all this recognition and senseless plugs from me... which could be a good or bad thing.
Not to mention, and no offense, but just because your a 3d artist, doesn't nessecarialy put you in a possition to judge the value of either of us in relation to this argument (not to mention, you didn't really say much of anything other than calling us weird names, you gave no solution to the problem either (the problem being the posting strategy of jauntry anywhere)).
However, lets just avoid this whole problem. From now on, I'll try to PM meplat, rather than continue posting in this thread since its getting out of hand. That way, I don't have to deal with jauntry's insults, I can get clear information from meplat, and I don't have to worry about public board space being occupied over a public matter that may arise (not to mention, I can avoid being kicked from the forums, which, very well be the result of me speaking my mind in public, whether I am right or wrong).
Now jauntry is happy, thunder is happy, I am happy, and meplat might be happy to since he's getting all this recognition and senseless plugs from me... which could be a good or bad thing.
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jaunty said:
Who's standard? If you are using an Imperial system of measure then yes it is usual to give bullet weights in Grains in American or sometimes Ounce in the UK. However if you are using a Metric system of measure (as used by the majority of the world) then the usual unit of measure is Grammes.
So no Jaunty although you didn't say that the wrong mass data had been given you DID say the unit of measure was wrong. Well I'm sorry to say that it wasn't.
Remember that America doesn't rule the world yet (or probably ever) and that there are other standards used. Why get into a pissing compitition over the minutia, what was said was basically correct so just except it and formulate a counter argument. Dogs can piss but only Humans can have constructive arguments. Lets all practice being Human for a change.
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5.56NATO is usually held to have better penetrative ability than 7.62x39. Although the Russian bullet has more potential energy this is placed over a larger surface area and a lot more importantly the round deforms badly. This means energy is 'wasted' by the round as it tries to penetrate. The ss109 round (as used in the L85 & FAMAS I beleive) has a steel penetrator. This improves the rounds penetration by not deforming on impact and concentrating the rounds energy onto a smaller area.
However this is all very dependant on what you've just hit and at what range.
You can't start flashing ballistic gel sections around to show a rounds penetration ability. All ballistic gel shows is a rounds wounding potential. IRL a rounds performas along the models lines but is greatly influenced by what was hit before entering the target and what it hits on the way through. I've yet to see a ballistic gel model that shows how a round enters the shoulder from the front and exits through the buttocks. I knew the bloke who could show you the scars though.
However this is all very dependant on what you've just hit and at what range.
You can't start flashing ballistic gel sections around to show a rounds penetration ability. All ballistic gel shows is a rounds wounding potential. IRL a rounds performas along the models lines but is greatly influenced by what was hit before entering the target and what it hits on the way through. I've yet to see a ballistic gel model that shows how a round enters the shoulder from the front and exits through the buttocks. I knew the bloke who could show you the scars though.
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Tiffy- true, but 10% ordance gel properly done is the best simulation of human tissue we have. Obviously bones need to be taken into consideration with odd occurances like your case for example, but you really can't simulate bones that well. Sure, you can shoot a 25 pound of meat and claim whatever you like with it, but since when are humans 25 pounds of pig meat?
Now I'm sure someone will say that gel isn't human tissue either, but as I said above, it's the BEST human tissue simulator we have. Shooting a pig's leg on the other hand is only worthwhile if you're actually going to shoot a pig's legs' only.
Now I'm sure someone will say that gel isn't human tissue either, but as I said above, it's the BEST human tissue simulator we have. Shooting a pig's leg on the other hand is only worthwhile if you're actually going to shoot a pig's legs' only.
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OCIW- Yes, but then you can cook the pig's leg. Ordinance gel just tastes blah. (Thus my idea of reformulating the gel with lime, and vodka)
Of course, there is the lesser known "meat box" method, where you actually buy cuts of human sized critter, innards, etc, and zap them . Lets you simulate varying media densities, and even what effects clothing has on the projectile.
Trouble is,it makes a hell of a mess.
Meplat-
Of course, there is the lesser known "meat box" method, where you actually buy cuts of human sized critter, innards, etc, and zap them . Lets you simulate varying media densities, and even what effects clothing has on the projectile.
Trouble is,it makes a hell of a mess.
Meplat-
I know more than most about arms. But I also know how much some people around here know so I just shut up about real life weapon specifications here.
With an attitude like that you deserve atleast one jaunty style whooping of your ass.
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Crito said:
Oh noes. You took me down. I am suffering from a verbal ballistic wound! Tell my mother I died my best!
Show me one post I've made in this thread which doesn't contain some sort of useful contribution to the original topic, or at least me doing my best to contribute.
Aggression, name calling, or anything else I do to amuse myself does not detract from the contribution that I've made in any given post. In fact, I think the only person in this thread who's actually written a big post that doesn't in any way contribute to the discussion is... oh yeah; YOU!, with your so far 4 posts which do nothing other than to address your pants wetting in relation to me.
You're saying that just because I insulted you, my contribution is null and void. What are you, fuckin nuts? That's like saying Hitler said something bad about jews so his invasion of Poland didn't really matter. Take your academia and shove it up your ass. It's irrelevent here. Pay close attention to this;
randomas said:
You're sitting here with the assumption that everyone here is going to be nice like you're still in some sort of university tutorial group. It aint so, sunshine. This place is a collection of people from all around the world. You've got everything from American script kiddies to British armorers (ret.), to Malaysian reserve soldiers, to people like Melpat and I who just know stuff, and've had some dealings with firearms in a non-military capacity.
This environment is not the boring, streile university that defines your world. There are hardly any professional academics here, and those that do go to university or college are probably doing CompSci or Arts. The rules of engagement for your little tutorial group do not apply here. Welcome to the internet.
I could do a point-by-point deconstruction of what you wrote, but it's New Years Eve, and I'm not missing a party just to prove how fucking deluded you are. Happy New Year and go to Hell.
Tiffy said:
I'm in Australia. We use grams too. It's more of a curtosey thing on the forums. Some people have a hard enough time understanding grains as it is, so we try not to confuse them by throwing grains and grams around at the same time.
I mean, most people don't even hear of grains until they hear somebody talking about a bullet, so it's sometimes an honest mistake that they confuse grains for grams, and end up thinking a bullet weighs 128 grams or something. So, y'know, it's not an international standard or anything, just a bit of curtosey to those who are still coming to grips with what, to them, is a new unit of measure.
Also, yes, Gelatin aint perfect, but short of shooting somebody and sectioning the wound, what can you do? Like I said on (I think) the previous page, There's really no place on the body with the same consitency and density of flesh that gelatin represents except for the muscular parts of the limbs. So yeah, it aint perfect, but we can at least get a fair idea.
Randomas: If FAS wasn't what you were looking for, give me an idea of what you do want and I'll see if I have something.
Jauntry, I have no use for your illogical, unsound, and unfounded ramblings. At this point I am ingoring you, because you lack to intellectual capacity to comprehend simple logical conclusions. Such as what I said, which was that I didn't have a problem with the useful information you posted, but I did have a problem with the non-useful insults you posted. Its sad to see you're unable to see this, you should honestly seek some professional help. If you can't reason you have serious problems. *clicks the ignore button on jauntry*
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Crito said:
hehe now imagine 10 people like "Jauntry" attacking you simultaniously! Thats what I used to deal with! Now sadly to me, only Jauntry is left to warm my days with his intellectual comments.
I was thinking of a simple explanation of what numbers in the ammo nomenclature mean, at least for the ones mainly used and talked about. My main problem with all the goodies posted in this thread is that there's too much of it ... I'll start wadeing through the fas site and see how it goes .
Thanks.
Freon I got used to the randomas handle, I use it on a few other boards as well. I only indicate my ingame handle when I think it's necessary (like online play complaints and such). I'd also need to sort out a signature and clan imagery and I'm just too darn lazy.
Thanks.
Freon I got used to the randomas handle, I use it on a few other boards as well. I only indicate my ingame handle when I think it's necessary (like online play complaints and such). I'd also need to sort out a signature and clan imagery and I'm just too darn lazy.
{GD}NTKB said:
Hey, I'm an asshole and I hate you. I'm at rest with this. At least I'm not trying to pass myself off as superior to everybody else because I have a year of university under my belt. I'm an uneducated hack who only just managed to graduate from high school, and I think that's great. Anything I put in my posts is mine, not some psuedo-intellectual crap. HUUUURRRR VERBAL BALLISTIC WOUND ON YUO!!!
(Yes, I still find that line highly amusing)randomas said:
5.56x45mm
The first part is the diameter of the bullet in millimeters, the second is the length of the bullet in millimeters. That's the actual slug, not the slug and the casing. Any words or numbers after that are just a name. An "R" after the measurement, i.e 7.62x54R designates that it's rimfire round, measurements are still in millimeters.
Crito said:
Yay. Hurray for you. Tell me I don't want any conversation, then ignore me. THREE CHEERS FOR CAPTAIN HYPOCRISY! Also, the ignore button is for sissies and crybabies who can't handle the real world. Thou hast proven mine theorem correct! I AM VICTORIOUS!
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jaunty said:
5.56mm is the nominal calibre of the round and may not be the exact diameter of the projectile. 45mm is the nominal lngth of the round of ammunition, thats the cartridge case and round combined. Again this may not be the exact round length but all rounds designed to be fired from the weapon will have the same length.
Just to clear matters up....
Jaunty- It's the diameter of the projectile, and the length of the case. Not the projectile. 5.56mm diameter projectile, 45mm long case= 5.56NATO.
And "Thou"?
Randomas- Other numbers you'll see are designators. "M855", for example. Moreso than the "5.56X45" label, the "M" indicates a specefic loading, a combination of projectile, powder, and primer designed to give a specefic performance rather than a simple chambering designation.
A full label would look something like this-(as I reach blindly for a box of hopefully spec surplus ammo and come up with)
"30 cartridges 5.56mm Ball C77 10 RD clips"
So, this designates what? thirty rounds, of Canadian made 5.56x45mm ball, of the C77 spec, loaded on ten round clips.
When you get into the non NATO/SEATO spec stuff, it get's interesting.
Meplat-
And "Thou"?
Randomas- Other numbers you'll see are designators. "M855", for example. Moreso than the "5.56X45" label, the "M" indicates a specefic loading, a combination of projectile, powder, and primer designed to give a specefic performance rather than a simple chambering designation.
A full label would look something like this-(as I reach blindly for a box of hopefully spec surplus ammo and come up with)
"30 cartridges 5.56mm Ball C77 10 RD clips"
So, this designates what? thirty rounds, of Canadian made 5.56x45mm ball, of the C77 spec, loaded on ten round clips.
When you get into the non NATO/SEATO spec stuff, it get's interesting.
Meplat-