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Impracticality of AKMSU

Discussion in 'New Version Suggestions' started by Crito, Dec 26, 2003.

  1. Crito

    Crito New Member

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    Just a quick bit of insight into the AKMSU and why perhaps its not the best (no offense INF, not that your not doing a good job, but just trying to lend some useful info) choices for a submachine gun.

    1) The ammunition of the gun is more of an assault rifle designation. 7.62 x 39

    2) The ROF (Rate of Fire) is about the same as an origional AK-47 (650 RPM up to around 725ish max).

    3) The AKMSU was more of a transitional model, so that the 7.62 x 39 could still be used in the AKS-74U design (of the future for that time). it was created, or should I say modified into that design, as more of a ... test series than it was a permanant make. More often then not, the AKS-74U is more widespread than the AKMSU. The AKM would probably be an even better choice than the AK-47 too (mainly because alot of AK-47 rifles are upgraded to that point).

    Although the AKMSU may be a bit... impractical, its not an unrealistic weapon by any means. The AK series of weapons has so many variants, I can't even name them all, let alone describe them all (although alot of variants are miniscule).

    These are my suggestions for upcoming weapons (russian ones that is):

    AK-47/AKM - most widespread rifles in the world (and their respective variants).

    AK-74 - highly used by the russian army since the late 70s. This gun has many modifications, and has been feilded in many places, making it a possibility for both terrorists and governments to get their hands on easily.

    AK-103 - if your talking about a more modern look to the 7.62 x 39, your talking about the 103, so it would be a nice choice for more of a special operations team of foreign nature (SpetsNaz).

    AK-101 - The development of this gun was mainly for export to NATO countries, since its chambered in 5.56 x 45. So, if you wanna play as a NATO country spec forces member, but like the AK (and like having a common round in your gun for ammo exchanging ;) ) this is the gun for you.

    AN-94 - A step away from the AK series, is the next series of weapons (using some of the AK technology form the AK-107 and 108 weapons) is the AN-94. Its operation is far from the simple design of most of the AK series, however, it has two advatanges. 1) In 2 round burst mode (yes, 2 round burst mode) it can fire both its shots, yet receive the recoil from both at the same time, and it fires those 2 bullets at an 1800 RPM rate (good for close combat). The gun is also able to be belt fed its ammuntion of 5.45 x 39 ammunition, making it not only a good assault rifle, but a good machinegun as well. Well worth looking into. However, there is one drawback... its somewhat of a costly weapon, which is why the russian army is still getting the money together to put this weapon into full scale service :rolleyes:

    I could have suggested the AKS-74U and the who AK-100 series as well, but I'll leave it at that for my main recomendations for these guns. Although, I do suggest they use the AKS-74U instead of the AKMSU (besides, all they'd have to change is the magazine shape... making it less curved, yet the same color).

    Well, like I said INF team, don't take it personaly, I'm just trying to put in my two cents. Feel free to ask me any info you want (if you ever do read this) about russian weapons, I'd be glad to answer some ;)

    -The Platypus
     
  2. Freon

    Freon Braaaaiinss...

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  3. Alpha_9

    Alpha_9 Infiltration lead level designer

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    Freon's right.

    Moved...
     
  4. OICW

    OICW Reason & Logic > Religion

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    Personally, I think that Inf should have an AKM, and maybe the AKS74U or an AK104 , though the AKS74U is in more use AFAIK.
     
  5. spm1138

    spm1138 Irony Is

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    I want an AKS-74UB. Preferably with a selection of optics, a PBS-3 and a grenade launcher.

    The AKMSU works for me in the meantime though, mainly because it goes "CHUGGA CHUGGA CHUGGA!" when you fire it.
     
  6. Grim_Reaper ~UFS~

    Grim_Reaper ~UFS~ You're all gay and stupid.

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    The AKMSU was a great gun in 2.86 because I think it did the most damage. However, the same cannot be said now due to the fact that the M16 and FAMAS are deadlier against both armor and unarmored opponents when compared to the AKMSU. The bonus the AK's open sights give it just doesn't seem to outweight it's downfalls.
     
  7. Rostam

    Rostam PSN: Rostam_

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    It all depends on taste. I take the AKMSU often, perhaps more often than the m16. Mostly because it's shorter and I often take cover in tight spots.

    The AKMSU is simply a better choice for smaller distances, even though it also depends on the user. I love alot of things about it, even the smaller things such as it switching between auto and semi almost instantly. Or for the fact that it gives a kickass sound. No weapon in INF is useless.
     
  8. Crito

    Crito New Member

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    I'd also like to see (if possible) some of that russian silent ammo too. Of course the guns modded to use it would be less powerful, buts its practicaly silent.

    --Warning: Do no read on unless you want to hear about the technical stuff--

    The silent ammo basicly works like this:

    When the primer is hit, the gasses in the bullet will expand like normal, except, they won't leave the bullet at all. Instead, they push the bullet out, via a little plate that gets pushed foward in the bullet (as the bullet moves foward from the plate pushing it) and the bullet exits the gun only with the force of a quick push from the bullet, instead of expanding gas, while the gases are kept inside the bullet the whole time, and ejected with the empty cartridge.... obviously, the problem with this is, a normal Assault Rifle (AR) can't use this type of bullet (unless modified correctly) because of the obvious problem that AR guns have to use the same gas that fires the bullet to reload and fire again (the gas blowback system).

    The result of course is that you only hear the click of the hammer with each shot, and nothing more, and unless you were standing right next to the gun, you won't hear the bullet at all... and it doesn't break the speed of sound either with every shot since there isn't enough force to fire them that fast with from each round... not to mention the range too (as a result) and power are greatly decreased for this near absolute silence. However, if you plan on clearing rooms, and don't want the guy in the next room to hear much, its useful.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2003
  9. jaunty

    jaunty If you disagree with me, you're wrong.

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    It has the easiest sights to use in game, it can sport a huge drum, it packs a huge punch, and it's small enough that you can take it indoors without any trouble. So, pre tell, why is this impractical considering INF engagement ranges rarely exceed 150m?
     
  10. NTKB

    NTKB Banned

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    Yes its wonderful for tight CQB. The M16 is always catching on walls and doorways. The AKMSU you can turn a corner much tighter not to mention the most important thing no one mentioned here.. It has a hell of a penetration. Ive killled many a person who thought they were safe behind a wall then BAM BAM BAM dead.
     
  11. Grim_Reaper ~UFS~

    Grim_Reaper ~UFS~ You're all gay and stupid.

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    Doesn't the AK have the 3rd best penetration behind the m16 and famas? doesnt the drum also give it more recoil?
     
  12. NTKB

    NTKB Banned

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    I dont know but that wouldnt seem right given it has a larger round... I could swear it penetrates more..
     
  13. spm1138

    spm1138 Irony Is

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    Why would the drum give it more recoil?
     
  14. Crito

    Crito New Member

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    Ok, lets start by clearing a few things up.

    The AK series of weapons chambered in 7.62 x 39 DOES have more penetration than the M16 and Famas series which are chambered in 5.56 x 45. This is because the 5.56 weigh around 4 grams (the actual bullet itself) while the AK series 7.62 x 39 round weighs a little less than 8 grams. The 5.56 round has a muzzle velocity of around 915 on avg between the two guns (m16 and famas) and the 7.62 x 39 has a muzzle velocity of around 700 to 715 (715 for the AK-103 series). Doesn't take a genius to see the 7.62 x 39 (that AKs use) is far more powerful, not to mention a better round because the 5.56 is so light the stupid thing can be thrown off course by a tree branch while the 7.62 will go right through it. Another reason the 7.62 is better...

    2ndly, the drum does NOT increase recoil, if anything it reduces recoil. Reason: the drum barrel itself weighs more than a 30 round magazine, and, because of this it pulls down on the gun more when it recoils (thus giving it a little LESS recoil... IRL that is).

    Now, to answer some questions that perhaps weren't cleared up in my inital post (which they were, I'm being sarcastic).

    The AKMSU as a GUN isn't impractical, its actualy fairly decent (although I'd rather go with the AKS-74U for close combat, since in CQC you don't need to overdo it on the power, and you'd get less recoil (and yes, you can use a drum barrel with the AKS-74U which can hold 75 rounds as well but in 5.45 x 39)).

    The AKMSU is impractical however, because of its production numbers (which can't be many). This is because of:

    The folding stock on the AKMSU was put into being mainly with the AKS-74 series, as an alternative to the AKMS model foldnig stock. Secondly, I'm fairly confident that the AKS-74U was the first design of the shorty series of AK. This means, that the AKMSU was probably made so that all that 7.62 wouldn't go to waste that was stocked up from the widescale production of the AK-47/AKS-47 and AKM/AKMS series. If I had to take a guess, the AKMSU was most likely producted in some of the old soviety bloc countries under a different name of some sort so that the 7.62 can be utilized... especialy concidering that the chamberings of the bloc countries and russia differ slightly in their respected copied guns (because there are so many variants of AK). Not to mention, the shorty design seen the AKS-74U series was experimented with in the early 70s, and the experimental designs were in 5.45, so the AKMSU had to be a VARIANT of the AKS-74U because the origional shorty was a 5.45. Therefore, making the AKMSU a lightly produced variant.

    So, as you can see, the AKMSU was not as widely spread as the AKS-74U is, and is more than likely not even called the AKMSU but some romanian variant name. Meaning, there weren't THAT many produced that it should be concidered a MAIN STREAM weapon.

    HOWEVER, if you have fallen so in love with the shorty design chambered in 7.62 x 39, I suggest you ask the INF development team to add in the AK-104, which is essientialy an updated version of the so-called AKMSU (and yes, the stock does fold and you can use the same drum barrel).
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2003
  15. jaunty

    jaunty If you disagree with me, you're wrong.

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    Grains, not grams. We measure bullet weight in grains. So use the standard measurements.

    Now, first of all, it isn't an AKMSU. It's an AKS-47U. An AKMSU has an underfolding stock and a special forward pistol grip. In game, the penetration of the AK round is lower than the 5.56mm weapons. You seem to forget, Mr I Know Everything, that just rounds don't perform universally. The drastically shorter barrel of the AKS-74U reduces performance drastically, which means for the purposes of Infiltration, the 5.56mm weapons all have better penetration. The wound profiles of the various 5.56mm rounds are also much more damaging than the 7.62x39 round.

    So, the weapon as it exists in game sees quite alot of service around the world, just in a different caliber. The Spetz Natz used to have a fetish for them (and still retain some in their inventory), many Russian forces still use them with all sorts of attatchments and Bin Laden is always seen with one in his videos. They screwed up the name and caliber. What they created was an AKS-74U in the wrong caliber. What they named it was AKMSU, which is a 7.62x39mm AKS-74 with a downfolding stock instead of a side folding stock and a custom forearm which has a thumbhole style pistol grip on it.

    So, in summary, you're an idiot, and you don't know as much as you think you do.

    Now, some advice. You've been registered for less than a week and you're already posting. Lurk more. There's people around here with knowledge that makes you look like a CS kiddie, so just take a breath and read a little before you jump into posting this that and the other. I'm only this nice once, and if you pull the King Shit routine again, you'll be sorry.
     
  16. NTKB

    NTKB Banned

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    Why dont you stick you fist up your ass mr kangaroo masterbater and stop bashing noobs. We dont need you sleazy imflammatory crap here in the New Version suggestion forums dip ****.

    Dont mind this smhuck he owes the world pain.
     
  17. jaunty

    jaunty If you disagree with me, you're wrong.

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    Thank you for that insightful and important addition to this thread. Without your post, we would be no further towards enlightenment regarding the topic of Infiltration's AKMSU. You are truly a visionary.
     
  18. perrin98

    perrin98 New Member

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    Jaunty, shut up. The man has posted clear and concise ideas and backed them up with facts. You've flamed him, apparently without reading his posts thoroughly. I'm with Crito on this one.

    -LordPerrin
     
  19. jaunty

    jaunty If you disagree with me, you're wrong.

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    Aside from one paragraph in which I told him it might be a good idea to get a feel for the place before he posted, and one sentence where I told him what I thought of him (which I do to everybody, regardless of who they are, as you should've figured out by now) I did nothing but state facts and opinion, so fuck you. If you want to attack me, do it on the basis of what I put forward instead of "HUUUURRRR YOU DISAGREED WITH HIM AND USED NAUGHTY WORDS SO I DON'T LIKE YOU!"

    You contributed nothing, and all you did was tell me off. Way to go, Captain Hyopcrite.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2003
  20. Meplat

    Meplat Chock full-o-useless information

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    Crito- Umm, you neglected to consider the 5.56x45's superior sectional density,in relation to accuracy, and armor penetration, let alone terminal ballistics.

    Also, unless one is using a firearm chambered for say, .50 BMG, or 20X139, any media other than air will affect shot placement.

    The more I hear of this "Silent Ammo" the more the name "Mondragon" echoes in my mind.


    Meplat-
     

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