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Epic commitment to UT3

Discussion in 'Unreal Tournament 3' started by BawaBawa, Apr 24, 2008.

  1. Grobut

    Grobut Комиссар Гробут

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    If you dont like reading, then perhabs a purely text based medium, such as an internet forum, might not be for you..

    Still, i see myself as a helpfull chap, so i'll give you a hand here: You should read and agree with everything i have written, because i am the only person here who is allways right, just ignore all the rest, its just pointless filler really.
     
  2. DarQraven

    DarQraven New Member

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    I have. All the stuff...mouse accel/smoothing, did all the joystick deadzone tweaks in the ini, did the "2k4 mouse feel" tweaks, the whole shebang.
    Still feels like accelerated or at least sluggish input when compared to 2k4, warsow, quake, CS1.6 and source, UT99, TF2 and about on par with Crysis.
    Like most other UE3 games before it.
     
  3. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    I don't know what that means, since I've never had that problem. On my G9 it is as responsive as I want it to be.
     
  4. hilo_

    hilo_ New Member

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    Did you do everything here?

    http://www.prounreal.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1001084#1001084
     
  5. T2A`

    T2A` I'm dead.

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    Yes. Everyone who ever had trouble with UT3's mouse stuff has done all of that, myself included.

    UT3's input system is FUBAR'd. Some people can feel it. Others can't. It was very noticeable to me.

    It's not a mouse or framerate problem on my end either. Every other game I play feels perfectly fine.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2008
  6. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    Do you have any videos handy or anything that shows what the problem is?
     
  7. T2A`

    T2A` I'm dead.

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    Nope. It's probably not anything you can see. It just felt... off. As if even with all the INI hacks I did there was still some amount of acceleration or smoothing being applied.

    Even when I'd set my mouse sens. such that my 360 distance was longer than UT2004 the crosshair movement still felt faster.

    Couple that inherently inaccurate feeling with the inaccurate tracers of the shock and sniper and it really killed any feeling of knowing WTF I was doing whilst playing.
     
  8. Draco73

    Draco73 New Member

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    i have to vouch for T2A, i too did all the ini editing and such, and ut3's mouse still feels fubard. its hard to put your finger on it, or explain it exactly, but it just does not feel right.
     
  9. Zennex

    Zennex The almighty w00tfish

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    As far as the mouse goes, I have no idea what you guys are talking about. Perhaps all of us that haven't noticed really do have inferior senses or some ****. More likely is some bizarre error that occurs in certain systems. If you all that have the problems really want to solve them, I would suggest making a matrix of your hardware to find commonalities. As to epic's commitment, I'm with the minority here in saying that the fans have abandoned epic, not the other way around. Every complaint I've read everywhere mainly makes me think that ppl are mostly pissed off that stuff changed. Seems like everyone just wanted UT2004 again except with better graphics. Kinda reminds me about the Elder Scrolls fans reactions to Oblivion. Luckily for Bethesda, Oblivion managed to catch the eye of the 360 fanboys. Lets hope its not too late for Epic to be saved by the same, otherwise I'm sure we'll never see anything but Gears of War games from them in the future.
     
  10. T2A`

    T2A` I'm dead.

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    Matrix!

    Code:
    X = People with UT3 mouse issues.
    
       X  | Intel CPU | NVIDIA GPU | Logitech Input |
    -------------------------------------------------
    T2A`  |    si     |     si     |       si       |
    Draco |           |            |                |
    DarQ  |           |            |                |
    
    This is probably not going to help. :)
     
  11. Dark Pulse

    Dark Pulse Dolla, Dolla. Holla, Holla.

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    I have all of those and have no input issues.

    E6750, 8800 GTS 640, MX518.
     
  12. Zennex

    Zennex The almighty w00tfish

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    I had something a little more detailed in mind (that doesn't even have OS!) but whatever. All I'm saying is that a glitch makes more sense than the argument that those of us that can't feel it just suck.
     
  13. Grobut

    Grobut Комиссар Гробут

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    I dont think hardware is the deciding factor here at all, its a matter of perception.

    Most people can definately feel that the mouse in UT3 is a bit messed up, that is the whole reason why people came up with the ini tweaks in the first place, many feel thease tweaks have solved the issue, others feel they are just an improovement, but that the issue has not entirely been fixed by thease tweaks.

    I belong to the latter category, i feel that its still a bit iffy somehow even with the tweaks, a freind of mine does not, after the tweaks he feels that its fixed and working perfectly.. but the mouse movement is identical on our two systems! it is exactly the same, so the issue seems to be subjective in nature, and not technical.
     
  14. hilo_

    hilo_ New Member

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    The tweaks "fixed" it for me, but it definitely feels different from UT/UT2k4, and I can see how that could cause some problems for people. I got used to it though. And in the case of the shots feeling "off", I guess I usually just attribute a questionable shot to lag or UT3's net code.
     
  15. T2A`

    T2A` I'm dead.

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    UT3's netcode definitely has the worst feel of the series thus far, but the "off" shots for sniper and shock happen offline too.

    TBH, those tweaks did help some (as far as I remember, at least) but they didn't completely fix the issue. Some people are just more perceptive to things like that. In other games that use such a scale (UT2004, for instance), I can feel a sensitivity change of 0.01, so... yeah. UT3's input being FUBAR'd was incredibly obvious to me.
     
  16. MonsOlympus

    MonsOlympus Active Member

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    Its like moving the mouse through a bowl of jelly... Yes the tweaks helped some, I really dont have the time to fart arse around fixing all the crooked crosshairs though.
     
  17. Zennex

    Zennex The almighty w00tfish

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    Somehow I doubt that if I sneaked into your house and changed your UT2004 mouse settings by .01 that you would feel it. Maybe you really are that awesome, but then again most people think they can tell the difference between cd quality and 128 kbps mp3s, but there's been numerous studies done proving that very few actually can. Mostly **** like that is a mental thing. As to the input problems, what it sounds like from what you guys are describing is a mouse acceleration issue. I've had certain games go screwy if you don't turn off accel completely in windows, so I don't know if that would help here or not. I don't really think it's a hardware issue, myself, either. But certain hardware has software that goes with it, so it could be guilt by association. I swear, I installed some creative drivers one time that really ganked my mouse.
     
  18. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    If it "feels like" mouse acceleration then that would be why I can't feel it, I've used mouse acceleration in UT for years.
     
  19. DarQraven

    DarQraven New Member

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    Q6600, 2GB DDR667, Asus 8800GTS 640, Logitech G5.
    Of course the difference is only slight, but even slight differences can completely change how something feels. During a recent project, we designed a handlebar for the disabled. Test subjects kept complaining that it felt flimsy and about to break. We then thickened the plastic enclosure by .05mm (which won't make a significant difference at all in durability) and added a little more material inside which had no other function than adding weight, and voilá.
    The issues were gone. Suddenly it felt like a sturdy handlebar.

    Small things like that can have a much larger impact, even when the test subject is not aware of the changes.

    Also, I agree that some people are more perceptive to this than others. I don't say this to make myself, grobut or T2A look pro or anything, but it's obvious everywhere. Practice makes perfect, and as such you'll often hear beginning guitar players use a guitar that is completely out of tune. They won't notice.
    Even experienced guitar players will sometimes fail to notice that they are making windows crack.
    Considering that I've had this mouse for about 3 years now and play quite a lot, I've grown accustomed to how it handles and feels. In UT3 it does not feel natural.

    I can't quite put my finger on what it is, but the 'moving the pointer through a bowl of jelly' description is quite fitting. It's like the crosshair has a certain inertia and that it takes a while to react. But once it's moving, it's hard to stop again.
    This coupled with inaccurate netcode and hitscan weapons makes UT3 insta quite unenjoyable for me (see couple of posts back).
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2008
  20. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    See, to me that sounds like something that should be visible :)

    The mouse I used when UT3 first came out (up to about two months ago) was the same mouse I'd been using for both 2k3 and 2k4 (about 4 years total, so not all of 2k3). I used it in clan matches and all kinds of competitive things. It felt almost exactly the same to me in UT3. And I never intentionally used acceleration in 2k4.

    With my G9 it feels really responsive no matter what DPI I set it to, and I haven't yet changed my in-game sensitivity.

    That's why I would be surprised if it was anything other than perception. It probably doesn't work much differently than before. Unless you guys are getting low frames. It does feel like what you are describing when I'm getting 20fps.
     

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