1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Two Factor Authentication is now available on BeyondUnreal Forums. To configure it, visit your Profile and look for the "Two Step Verification" option on the left side. We can send codes via email (may be slower) or you can set up any TOTP Authenticator app on your phone (Authy, Google Authenticator, etc) to deliver codes. It is highly recommended that you configure this to keep your account safe.

Epic commitment to UT3

Discussion in 'Unreal Tournament 3' started by BawaBawa, Apr 24, 2008.

  1. MonsOlympus

    MonsOlympus Active Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2004
    Messages:
    2,225
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well lets be honest here UT has never been a massive seller, its never been the totally in thing except for way back and even then it was competing with the likes of quake. Lets also be honest and say TF2 is hardly innovative, while it does bring a few new dribs and drabs its still largely the TF of ole, so I dont see people choosing TF2 over UT3 because its "newer" so to speak. Its probably a pure cost and system requirements thing, me I actually bought and play both online from time to time.

    TF2 seems to be quieting down alot now compared to initial release but there was alot of people involved in the beta so it probably just wore out, also servers seem to be thinning out a touch. No where near on the scale of UT3, well servers are still going but its hard to find a match when you want to play, peak times is fine.

    But anyways, Im reminded of a time not so long ago I was asked if UT3 had team based modes or not, serious question as well even if I did laugh. There is an obvious answer there for any fan of the series but perhaps Epic didnt do enough to actually advertise the gameplay itself instead of the branding. It was a majority warfare so people might have though oh UT2k4 with better graphics and not even bothered, when the DM portions for me play more like the original UT which alot of people wouldnt have touched. UT has never been the 10million copy seller so assuming everyone even knows what DM or CTF is might have been alittle wrong. It also has very little in common with gears from a gameplay perspective so hyping the studio who brought you was alittle bit of a wrong move. Some people might buy games from companies they like but you are going to be dissapointed if you are expecting it to be a very similar title. That might even have an impact on 360 sales when people actually try it, not that Unreal is new to xbox so some people know what to expect but even the championship series is huge. I do blame halo alittle for that especially in regards to UC2 because I heard they were released in similar timeframes.

    UT3 might not be doing so well online but I dont think we should guage its lifespan based soley on that, pings make it hard to be competitive even for just for fun games so it could get more attention in a lan setting. I have heard people had problems getting it setup and whatnot. Its probably just a compounded affect of all these little things which are hurting the game.

    I think some people are expecting too much from patches though naming things like a complete UI overhaul as something they want to see. As you say though the gameplay doesnt have much to be complained about, most of the bugs Ive seen are more of a graphical nature myself like dissapearing stuff n whatnot.

    I just hope Epic doesnt take the online player counts as the total number of people playing the game in their descisions for support. Id love to see this game continue to be patched and more content provided as we have been getting, people who arnt playing the game obviously dont like it but there are people still playing it and have been doing so since the beta demo.

    I did see Epic playing against gears of war players on live, did they actually do anything like that for UT3?
     
  2. Molgan

    Molgan T-minus whenever

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2008
    Messages:
    413
    Likes Received:
    0
    Indeed. And since the topic of the UI has been beaten to death I would like to mention another thing where they have some homework to do. The vehicular game types.

    A majority of the ONS and vCTF players from 2k4 can't stand the UT3 counter parts. Epic should have taken notice of what people actually was playing and the improvements they had made or requested, and built on that. Instead they just raped the game types. Cutting out features because the newbies don't understand them, having players running like lemmings in choke node maps (because having to make an active decision between 2 nodes is too hard for the average gamer) and turning the vehicles in vCTF into pure obstacles etc adds up to the "I got screwed" feeling.

    WAR: The whole competitive 2k4 ONS community and a big part of the casuals (who by chance had a rig to run it) had a quick look at WAR and then went elsewhere or stayed in 2k4. This had a huge impact on the state of UT3. ONS made 2k4, TDM and CTF wasn't very "accessible" in 2k4 without the IG mut. Now when the WAR game type obviously flopped it has a huge impact on UT3 because there aren't many other game types there to save it. Without ONS I think 2k4 would have felt just as empty as UT3 because the game type pulled people into the game and also helped filling up other game types.

    ONS players never requested Orbs or nerfed vehicle controls. They wanted ONS Plus, better node setups/node types and a lot of other tweaks. Epic said "FU we know better" and decided to not listen to the community. WAR isn't fun, it lacks tactical freedom, it's linear and full of balance issues. Rip the assault wannabe features out and make 2 game types like it was intended from the beginning. ONS 2.0 and Conquest.

    vCTF: They obviously didn't care to have a look at what people actually was playing here either. How many hugeass maps get a lot of play time in 2k4? Not many, and they are all strictly manta run maps. Not allowing fc in ground vehicles is another WTH decision. A lot of vehicles are now turned into infantry suppressors instead of tactical pawns, and a lot of the beauty of vCTF is gone.

    The hoverboards bring some of the manta running back, but manta running was allways a hot potato iirc. 2k4 vCTF didn't have TL because the game type had (tadaa) vehicles. I have never ever felt the need for a skateboard in 2k4. If you where walking between 2 nodes in ONS you weren't doing it right, and if you needed to catch up to a enemy FC you used (ffs) VEHICLES.

    A lot of people don't want to admit it, but these game types was important to bring people into the game. Epic was more interested in making it simple enough for the consolers to grasp then letting it evolve into something better. Redo, relaunch, hype it.
     
  3. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    25,995
    Likes Received:
    75
    Instead they made them into gametypes a wider range of people would enjoy. I hated VCTF in 2k4. It was terrible and unbalanced. I hated ONS for much the same reason. Both gametypes are very fun in UT3.
     
  4. Molgan

    Molgan T-minus whenever

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2008
    Messages:
    413
    Likes Received:
    0
    You mean instead they made them into gametypes you would enjoy, it's pretty obvious that the wider range of people disagree.
     
  5. T2A`

    T2A` I'm dead.

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2004
    Messages:
    8,752
    Likes Received:
    0
    Here's what some guy said on IRC. People were apparently too busy for me to have a back-and-forth conversation, though, so I didn't get the chance to get any other questions or clarifications answered.

    I dunno what y'all are arguing about at the moment, but I'll just say that I would've played WAR if it didn't have orbs. But VCTF still sucked.
     
  6. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    25,995
    Likes Received:
    75
    What makes that obvious? I'd bet that what keep people from playing UT3 has less to do with how much fun they have playing it and more to do with the plethora of problems involved with just getting to that point. *cough* Gamespy *cough*
     
  7. Molgan

    Molgan T-minus whenever

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2008
    Messages:
    413
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sure gamespy doesn't help, but it's a bit naive to try to put all the blame there. 2k4 had at least 5x if not 10x (judging from my server browser) the amount of players online in this time period after launch, and 2k4 had issues too if you remember. The main problem is the disappointment with the way Epic messed up the game types. Anyone who have been at least a little bit involved in the ONS and vCTF community can tell you it's obvious unless they are deaf and blind.

    The biggest reasons why the ONS and vCTF people don't care about UT3 is:

    1; Not fun
    2; system specs
    3; UI
     
  8. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    25,995
    Likes Received:
    75
    Nobody knows what UT2004 peaked at, because for months after it came out the only source we had to use was Gamespy.

    As for WAR and VCTF, if you're talking about the miniscule clan communities that are around (of less than 100 total people), then I would agree with you. But for pubbers and people who like balanced gametypes, the changes are good.
     
  9. Molgan

    Molgan T-minus whenever

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2008
    Messages:
    413
    Likes Received:
    0
    I was there, I remember the amount of populated servers, please drop this darn hangup on gamespy. :rolleyes:


    You really have no idea what you are talking about. I was talking about the UT2004 ONS and vCTF communities, people who have spent 1000s of hours on the game just for the fun, providing balanced games and servers. No I'm not just talking about the competitive community that in -07 managed to pull off a ONS cup with 45 teams participating, I'm also talking about the numerous non comp communities, pubbers and server admins that loved the game types. I'm still not an angry guy, but it's kind of frustrating when you pull unfounded statements like this out of your ass. =)
     
  10. MonsOlympus

    MonsOlympus Active Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2004
    Messages:
    2,225
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well ummz, whats the problem again? People not liking the changes made to the gametypes or the fact they arnt playing? I just dunno whats up anymore, people are expecting what from UT3 and Epic exactly?

    I mean if people are happy to play UT2k4 I dont see why Epic should be worried, its still their title, Im sure they would prefer everyone to move over to UT3 but we knew from the trends in the community that was never going to happen.

    I must admit one of the things I most like about UT3 is it got rid of people riding on manta's, it just doesnt make any sense and isnt really fun either, I much prefer the hoverboard atleast then Im in control. Worst part was always running a b-line for the manta or another vehicle and hoping you get their first. I dunno if its just me or not though but UT3 maps seem to have alot of vehicles, it doesnt change either for the amount of people in the map, maybe theres a balance issue in all of that.

    I just dunno hey, Im not expecting any major gameplay revisions, entirely new gameplay features or what not in the patches. I mean if Epic does do some then kewl but I am kinda against making major changes to a title after release because there becomes this whole metagame of knowing what the latest changes are and using any the recent unbalances to full advantage. Not exactly fun I guess.
     
  11. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    25,995
    Likes Received:
    75
    Yes, and I wasn't there! Oh, wait...

    The problem is, in 2k3 and 2k4, seeing 4/24 doesn't mean anything.
    Unfounded statements like what? The only people I ever hear whining about VCTF and WAR in UT3 are people that either 1) don't like vehicle gametypes anyway, or 2) liked the imbalances of those gametypes in 2k4 (and these people generally fall in the "played ONS competitively in 2k4" category). The people who were either on the fence or hated the imbalances in 2k4, like the changes in UT3 for the most part. Obviously not everyone likes everything in every gametype. It's personal preference. I've logged dozens of hours more Warfare in UT3 in 6 months than I probably did in ONS the whole time 2k4 was out. I just didn't find it fun at all, for a variety of reasons, some of which STILL persist in Warfare today. But I do find Warfare a lot more fun.
     
  12. Molgan

    Molgan T-minus whenever

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2008
    Messages:
    413
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's the same problem.

    O please, we have heard the "2k4 count bots" argument and how it render every assumption on player numbers false. It has been known for ages and oc I'm not talking about bots when I speak of the amount of players found in 2k4. Maybe you wasn't there, I speak from a euro point of view and here at least ONS was well populated.

    I'm also talking about the people who isn't whining because they have stopped to care, the act of not playing the game is a statement too. You say yourself that you wasn't into ONS much so that may excuse your ignorance.

    Thats what you like, you are not the public. There was things about ONS I didn't like either, but nothing of it got fixed in WAR.
     
  13. MonsOlympus

    MonsOlympus Active Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2004
    Messages:
    2,225
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hence the follow up sentence.
     
  14. Molgan

    Molgan T-minus whenever

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2008
    Messages:
    413
    Likes Received:
    0
    Lol sry. ^^

    Just like you I'm against making major changes after release, and I don't think patches can save the big issues anyway. As I have said before, personally I think something drastic like the 2k3/4 deal is the only way to go, but it has other problems, like everyone who play UT3 will feel cheated instead.
     
  15. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    25,995
    Likes Received:
    75
    The fact that we've heard that argument a lot doesn't change the fact that it is true.

    Onslaught was always the most populated gametype in 2k4 (sompeting with standard DM, I guess). I'm talking about the game as a whole. ONS made up the majority of players in terms of bots and humans. There is simply no way to make an even close to accurate assumption about how many people were playing UT2004 at any given time. And thanks to Gamespy, there is no way to do that in UT3 either.
    What ignorance? You make this statement that UT3 isn't played because people hate the gameplay, but most people I've heard from on forums and IRL is that the gameplay is fine, or good, or even perfect from some people. It's a very minor group of people that ever said anything about Warfare or VCTF gameplay changes.

    Plenty of people have been known to play Warfare. However, I will say that one thing that is probably causing a huge skew in counts is that UT3 Retail and UT3 Demo are not cross compatible like those were in UT2004. Looking on the Game-Monitor server list, I see that several of the old UT2004 demo romping grounds are just as populated as they were two years ago.
     
  16. Molgan

    Molgan T-minus whenever

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2008
    Messages:
    413
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm not spamming this thread anymore, I have said what I wanted to say and this have started to feel like talking sign language with blind people. If the fact that nobody is playing the vehicular gametypes on PC isn't sign enough that there is something wrong with them there is no hope we will reach an understanding here.
     
  17. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    25,995
    Likes Received:
    75
    I just got done playing some Warfare. I was playing with real people. Your point is invalidated.
     
  18. WHIPperSNAPper

    WHIPperSNAPper New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2003
    Messages:
    444
    Likes Received:
    0
    I haven't conducted a formal study, but I suspect that more people are also playing UT99, too. You can still find a couple hundred playing UT99 at certain times of day.

    I'm starting to wonder if he might be an undercover shill or agent employed by Epic.
     
  19. WHIPperSNAPper

    WHIPperSNAPper New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2003
    Messages:
    444
    Likes Received:
    0
    Don't forget the UT99 competitive CTF community. Many of the Prounreal types were excited about UT3 when they got to play the game play of the Demo but when they learned that the full game was just like the Demo in that it had the same awful, clunky and slow user interface and functionless and featureless server browser, they lost interest and returned to playing UT99 CTF pug matches.
     
  20. Trynant

    Trynant Manic Brawler

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2002
    Messages:
    2,019
    Likes Received:
    1
    Stats

    This "You can't accurately tell if UT2004/UT/UT3 has more players than one another" argument is sort of BS.

    Here's a test I did.

    Now, though it may be impossible to see how many people are playing at once, it's possible (and easy) to just count how many populated servers there are. And UT2004 doesn't count a server of only bots as populated.

    Here are the numbers I got by going online a few minutes ago.

    UT: 193 populated servers (999 playing since UT's tab actually tells you the player count)*.
    UT2004: 314 populated servers
    UT3: 84 servers

    You could argue that there are more players distributed per server in each different game, but that implies that people's mentality of finding populated servers changes in each circumstance, which is just plain silly.

    Please stop saying it's impossible to tell which game has more people playing when you can just go and look at each game.

    *I don't have many mods for UT, so I suppose there are more people playing a lot more gametypes than this. Same goes for UT2004.

    Back on topic. Of course Epic is committed to Unreal Tournament 3. It's their game that they worked so hard to make, it would be ridiculous to say they're in it solely for the money. If that were the case UT would become suddenly become a tactical, modern-warfare clone that was exclusive to consoles. They're fixing the game, even if it seems like it's going slow.
     

Share This Page