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Epic commitment to UT3

Discussion in 'Unreal Tournament 3' started by BawaBawa, Apr 24, 2008.

  1. Jrubzjeknf

    Jrubzjeknf Registered Coder

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    Bloody disagreed.

    I have been playing VCTF on UT2004 for more than two years straight, without any long pauzes. Also note I'm not into the competitive community, which simply doesn't interest me.

    VCTF in UT2004 is more balanced than UT3. Ok, UT3 is balanced when it comes to weapons and vehicles, but it fails to balance weapons vs vehicles.
    Players on foot stand little chance against vehicles when not packing an avril. Wanna stop a manta heading towards you? You can choose between stinger alt and flak primary. Do you have an avril? Just launch it, the lock-on will (almost?) guarantee you the kill.

    UT2004 vehicular vs foot battles is much better. The avril's lock-on isn't as reliable, which forces you to think how you'll get the kill the easiest way. If you don't have an avril, you can also shoot the vehicle tactically so it topples over, forcing the enemy player out of its vehicle.
    The shock rifle can use alt fire, but especially pri fire, to stop the manta gives in the example above at any range.

    I guess this is a result of all the CARNAGE CARNAGE CARNAGE. Every enemy vehicle has to be killed with firepower. In UT2004, people can shoot a vehicle in order to throw it off track or cause it to turn, making the vehicle and/or enemy player a more vulnerable target. In UT3, not. :(
     
  2. Sijik

    Sijik Snagged an item.

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  3. Dark Pulse

    Dark Pulse Dolla, Dolla. Holla, Holla.

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  4. MonsOlympus

    MonsOlympus Active Member

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    To note UT99 doesnt have any vehicle gametypes, unless ofcoarse they are added in a custom game.
     
  5. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    Yes, because I never say anything negative about them or the game, right? FFS, don't say something that naive unless you go ahead and review my posting history (I posted some crap I hated about the game not four hours ago).
    The question is, why should it not be that way? Vehicles should be more powerful than some guy footing it.

    You can stop a manta with flak primary, a single rocket, impact hammer alt, stinger alt, and avril. That's quite a few weapons. What you can't do is bounce them all over the freaking map with single shock primary bursts, something that was a TOTAL imbalance in UT2004. I used to tease HuggyBear because, although he was an incredible manta driver, I could always knock him out of the way and kill him with the shock primary. It was just ridiculous.
    It's obviously an effort to make the vehicles more powerful without just throwing more vehicles at the problem.
    It depends on the scenario. Would you consider a server with one person spectating and 11 bots playing as populated? :p Or even a CTF server with one person and 7 bots playing? I don't think I would... But, regardless, I just checked and got a grand total of 165 populated servers (around 1/4th of which only had one person playing or spectating and a bunch of bots). You obviously just went into each gametype and added up the numbers, not discounting the fact that N/A servers are basically non-existent and several of the servers query with people on the master server, but query with 0 when checked directly. I went through each individual server to make sure that there were actually people in them. And I'm obviously not counting TAM (that I know of).
    You've pretty much just proved that you can't. Thanks :)

    Besides, I'm not going to argue that UT3 has more populated servers than UT2004. I think it's pretty frivolous no matter how you try to spin it. UT2004 has loads of mods more than a little done and has been out for more than four years with several patches over UT3. UT3 has all kinds of problems with it's multiplayer system in terms of custom content support, character model stuff, gamespy, and the list could go on forever. There is quite enough right there to make up the difference in populated servers and player numbers.
     
  6. Grobut

    Grobut Комиссар Гробут

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    Ohh quit it you silly sods, your both right, both Gamespy and changes made to gametypes has turned groups of people away from UT3, along with a whole host of other things that has done the same with other groups..

    Behave!
     
  7. T2A`

    T2A` I'm dead.

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    Dead horse pic = You're right but I don't want to admit it, so I'll try to make you look silly instead.

    :)
     
  8. Sijik

    Sijik Snagged an item.

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    No. It means I'm tired of the thread. More specifically, I'm tired fo the issues which comprise it. I have long since ceased to care about whatever I may have said in it, and there's no purpose to any of this except endless bickering.
    I don't care if I'm right or wrong, at this point, I'm just tired of seeing the same arguments debated over and over and over and over.
    There are substantially more worthwhile things we could be doing, but we apparently choose not to, which is highly embarrassing to say the least.
     
  9. Jrubzjeknf

    Jrubzjeknf Registered Coder

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    They are already, in firepower. They have unlimited ammo and usually an equal or higher RoF than vehicles in UT2004. Vehicles also provide protecting and bring you somewhere faster than you could on foot.

    The first three are to be used at very close range to point blank, as homing rockets can be dodged outside that range.
    Stinger alt does work, but requires leading the target a lot and the manta can throw off your lead by quickly turning.
    The avril eats vehicles for breakfast anyway.

    I agree that the knockback on the manta is large. I'm not saying UT3 should feature the same bouncyness, but it should allow for some effect on the vehicles. When you shoot one now, its like the vehicle is glued to the road.

    By that, players on foot are made less powerful, forcing them into using vehicles. Imo one should have the choice (disregarding availability and bailing out here) to use them or not, and be able to hold enemy vehicles off without putting in the firepower to destroy them.
     
  10. Entr0p1cLqd

    Entr0p1cLqd New Member

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    As a bona-fide member of the public I would like to add my support to the above statement.
     
  11. HudsonC

    HudsonC New Member

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    UT3 is not 2k4, UT2k4 wasn't UT99. Hey they even have different Names. Lots of people still playing both games. Epic created the game, they can do what they want with the game. If you don't like the game, Epic gave you and editor so you may create the game you like. If you don't want to learn the Editor you may download many different mutators and mods you like and run them on your server. That's what is great about UT/Epic
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2008
  12. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    Of course they are. It's kind of stupid when you can kill a Manta driver from across the map when they aren't taunting or even within a range in which they would even care about trying to run you over. Same goes for Raptor/Cicada drivers. It's pretty lame when the first thing that happens in UT2004 when someone sees you flying up in an air vehicle is you get hit by a couple of shock rifle beams and almost immediately die... at a point when you aren't even looking at anyone to attack yet.
    That's part of the point though. Avril ammo is EXTREMELY limited and there is no weapon throwing. On top of that, it's the only effective long distance weapon killer aside from turrets. But also, let's not fool ourselves and say that other weapons are ineffective at doing damage to vehicles at long range. I've gotten plenty of Raptor kills with the Sniper :)
    I guess I just don't understand. I admittedly don't play a ton of VCTF so I'm not entirely sure of the balance or style of play on those maps, but in Warfare I generally don't have any problems hoofing it around. Obviously it depends on the number of people playing and probably other things, but I do think that, in general, vehicles should be more powerful and harder to kill on foot. All it really does is make it so that it's not more worthwhile to be on foot versus another vehicles (aka UT2004) and better to try to avoid vehicles while on foot, or use different strategies to take them down then just bullfighting them.
     
  13. Poker

    Poker Anus Retentus

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    Holy effing filibuster Batman. Alright no one in their right mind would read all this, so I need help figuring out whose posts to skip past ... will someone please rank the participants of this thread according to the following ratio:

    ( belligerence + fondness for own intelligence ) / intelligence

    "Divide by zero" errors can go on the top of the list in any order.

    THANKS
     
  14. Sys-X

    Sys-X Commercialized Killer !!!

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    You know brizz after playing alot of vehicle based games in ut2004 I can say that the vehicles are just too overpowered while in ut2004 a player on foot was overpowered, they could at least find a way between it. And there is so many more wrong about ut3. The game feels like wading through mud even with the increased gamespeed.

    I rlly hate vehicle based gametypes in ut3 while I had so much fun in them in ut2004. Just look at the hoverboard idea, it's nice but falling on the ground helpless for seconds while a vehicle is heading your way or just someone standing still next to you killing you because you can't do ****. ( imho falling on the ground helpless isn't unreal ! )
    No way to outmove most vehicles.
    If for example a raptor is comming your way and you are out of avril then you are just a sitting duck to get killed because the weapons do so little damage and the damn thing keeps hanging still above your head shooting pulses with extremely fast rof.

    There is actually so much I dislike about that game it isn't funny anymore, too many things still missing at this date. Even with the latest patches it's still lightyears away from previous ut's. To me ut3 feels just like a showcase of the engine.
     
  15. Kantham

    Kantham Fool.

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    You sure? I thought that may have been the game and what everyone think about the game.
     
  16. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    And I disagree! YAY personal opinion :p UT3 feels much more like UT, which is what I personally wanted.
    And I had no fun in them in UT2004 for exactly the same reasons. If you're falling off your hoverboard a lot, perhaps you are using it in the wrong situations more than that there is a gameplay problem with it. It's not designed for using around other players/vehicles. Falling on the ground helpless is BALANCE. I don't care what the game is.
    Then you're in a bad position. How is this Epic's fault and not your fault? Technically, you can take care of the problem, or at least make a huge dent in the guy unless you were hoofing it with nothing but an avril, which is just dumb anyway. Raptors are pretty weak. Additionally, I'm guessing you started the series with UT2004. In UT, you died fairly often. It was part of making the experience fun for new players. If several people stayed alive practically the whole match, that is pretty stupid. You SHOULD die. You SHOULD be at a disadvantage if you're on foot without an avril versus a raptor. What is the point of having a vehicle if it's better to be on foot? That's what I would like to know. In UT2004 I rarely got in vehicles or cared about the vehicles because I could do better against them without one. That's pretty retarded, imo.
     
  17. Sijik

    Sijik Snagged an item.

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    I still enjoy the game quite a bit. I won't be tired of that for a while.
    What I'm tired of are pathetic, smart-ass comments...
     
  18. Sys-X

    Sys-X Commercialized Killer !!!

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    I still disagree sir brizz, but maybe you are right it's just my personal opinion. I started with ut2004 yes so maybe there is where the frustrating is comming from. I have to admit that I love normal dm in ut3 but there it just ends for me. Even my favourite gametype ictf isn't that fun for me anymore.

    .
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2008
  19. DarQraven

    DarQraven New Member

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    That's probably because the iGib rifle is a turd in UT3. I can't hit jack with it if it's standing in front of me, while I average ~50% accuracy in warsow iCA .. a game with a proper hitscan igib rifle. No delays or crooked beams or off-center crosshairs or anything, not mentioning the proper mouse input.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2008
  20. Sijik

    Sijik Snagged an item.

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    You might want to look into turning off mouse smoothing and/or acceleration and such if you're having trouble with mouse input. I'm having no trouble whatsoever, but I do know that I was having all sorts of issues in Gears until I turned off a few mouse settings.
     

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