Community Bonus Pack 2 Volume 2 Released!
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The maps are beatiful, though I wish they didn't limit them to people with very high end computers. Most of the maps I simply opened, typed Stat FPS, and closed before I even played them.
![[KBEC]MAJ](/data/avatars/s/38/38740.jpg?1424422853){kind=avatar}
Anyone experience some bug in DM-Tydal where you jump from the elevator to get 3 vial health and try fall from the roof (I can't, i'm stuck...)?
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TomWithTheWeather
Die Paper Robots!
Swedix said:
Not hard at all. It's just easier to create DM because it doesn't take as much effort and you don't have to think as hard about creating decent gameplay.
I wish there were more CTF also. With the exception of CTF-Decadence, Vol.1's CTF showing blew. The maps were pretty, but unplayable. I haven't tried Vol.2's yet.
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klasnic said:
I pretty much agree. Decent DM maps come out all the time, I'd be far happier about the CBPs if they kept the DM to an elite few and concentrated on gametypes that get comparatively few user-made maps (or that most mappers have trouble mapping for)- AS being the prime example; CTF, BR and DOM also. Onslaught maps are all over the place these days too, but I feel they included just the right amount.
TomWithTheWeather said:Not hard at all. It's just easier to create DM because it doesn't take as much effort and you don't have to think as hard about creating decent gameplay.
I wish there were more CTF also. With the exception of CTF-Decadence, Vol.1's CTF showing blew. The maps were pretty, but unplayable. I haven't tried Vol.2's yet.
Since I know you are mapper, maybe we can can expect something from you soon?
I have only tried the ctf-maps offline and as I see it, only 2 of the maps are actual playable.
CTF-Botanic looks great but if you don't have a really high end system, your fps will drop very low.
I have Barton 2800+ and a Geforce FX 5900XT and my fps drops so much so it isn't enjoyable to play.
CTF-Pistola isn't bad but to cramped. It's a defenders dream and an attackers nightmare. Did someone say spamfest?
CTF-Bahera looks very promising and can be fun playing on servers. What could have been better is the spawnpoints and weapon placements. Some spawnpoints are to far from any weapon. I hate running around searching for a weapon with only the assultrifle.
Vicious circle...
Wouldn't be so bad if people actually made maps for it :tdown:
That's the whole point, if people made decent maps for it, it'd make it a better gametype. The CBP maps in 1, 2.1 and 2.2 have all been very, very average in terms of gameplay (with a handful of exceptions such as Betrayal and Concentrate from CBP1). Pistola is the only really good CTF map in 2.2, the others are average.
Shadowlurker said:
Wouldn't be so bad if people actually made maps for it :tdown:
That's the whole point, if people made decent maps for it, it'd make it a better gametype. The CBP maps in 1, 2.1 and 2.2 have all been very, very average in terms of gameplay (with a handful of exceptions such as Betrayal and Concentrate from CBP1). Pistola is the only really good CTF map in 2.2, the others are average.
My badGrimStar said:Return to sender:
What's weird is that is a standard Epic mesh with standard Epic texture setup etc. I'm not actually sure why that happens, the skin doesn't involve shaders, only retail epic textures. Sorry bout that GrimStar.You reckon Nate? I'm not too sure if DM really is easier. At least one that's been designed for really great flow. Take Seraphim for UT - bloody fantastic. And because of the variation in height it's actually quite tricky to come up with nicely flowing layouts. CTF is usually one or two floors; Tydal has 6 in one area. It's a bit of a nightmare to visualise all those connecting paths in your head and on paper when drawing layouts.TomWithTheWeather said:Not hard at all. It's just easier to create DM because it doesn't take as much effort and you don't have to think as hard about creating decent gameplay.
Granted, CTF has to be pretty well balanced; slightly too small a flag room and it's spammed to ****, too short the base to base distance will mean defenders are at a disadvantage etc. It's certainly not easy. But I don't think that a DM with good gameplay is necessarily easier to make (CTF's are easier to do aethestically I think too).
I quite want to make a CTF level actually
ORM2 perhaps Might be good fun after Tydal. Making big DM levels is so damned time consuming as well..Rich
TomWithTheWeather said:It's just easier to create DM because it doesn't take as much effort and you don't have to think as hard about creating decent gameplay.
Is it realy? I mean, cmon - you make 2 bases with 2-4 entrances/exits, have several routes to each base and p00f.... Theres a good CTF map!
In DM maps, you have to have alot of flow, have the weapons placement right, and make it a big time maze.
It should be easier to make CTF maps. I know if I ever mastered UnrealED, id be putting out some amazing stuff for CTF!
How about making CTF-Bollwerk-2004?TomWithTheWeather said:
I agree that there are way too many DM maps. I always considered the UT series more of a teamgame rather than being DM oriented.
It's just sad that there are so few CTF maps compared to DM maps in the game. Add, that many maps in the CBP are more eyecandy than gameplay, and I'm somewhat disappointed.
CTF-Deep for example looks great, but it's a concept map. The tubes are deathtraps for a flagrunner and it's all to cramped
Wow!!! Volume 1 was good enough but i sure hope volume 2 is even better! Im downloading it now... 50% complete
SealClubber said:
Unfortunately, it appears that many mappers share your opinion. That's why we have 100's of ctf-maps that will never be played on public- or league / ladder servers.
To create a good ctf-map, you need to know what the game is about.
You need to see the game from both side at the same time. You must look at it as both defender and attacker. And also rember it should be based om teamplay.
There are a lot of talent mappers in the community and I know many of them would create great ctf-maps if they just took the time and played some ctf.
TomWithTheWeather
Die Paper Robots!
Heisher said:You reckon Nate? I'm not too sure if DM really is easier. At least one that's been designed for really great flow. Take Seraphim for UT - bloody fantastic. And because of the variation in height it's actually quite tricky to come up with nicely flowing layouts. CTF is usually one or two floors; Tydal has 6 in one area. It's a bit of a nightmare to visualise all those connecting paths in your head and on paper when drawing layouts.
Granted, CTF has to be pretty well balanced; slightly too small a flag room and it's spammed to ****, too short the base to base distance will mean defenders are at a disadvantage etc. It's certainly not easy. But I don't think that a DM with good gameplay is necessarily easier to make (CTF's are easier to do aethestically I think too).
I quite want to make a CTF level actually
Rich
I'm not saying making DM maps isn't a challenge, it's just from my experience, CTF can be a little tougher to create. Trying to balance a CTF map is probably the hardest part, IMO. Some mappers could probably create a decent CTF better than they could a DM map. Just depends on the mapper really.
I have 2 CTF maps and one DM in the works right now, but due to work, I don't know when they'll be finished.
SealClubber said:
Yeah, if you're in to bighead lowgrav 135 IG, where all gameplay has been destroyed.
SealClubber said:
All that flow and weapon placement you speak of is just as important in CTF as it is in DM, and possibly even more so to some extent. In CTF, the Defense has to balance out with the Offense, the blue has to balance with the Red, and the layout should offer balance no matter which route a player chooses to take, be it based upon pickup placement, areas that are safer, or areas that offer a more tactical advantage.
Swedix said:
Exactly. And contrary to popular belief, just because a map looks good, doesn't make it play good; even if the framerate is 150. Ask any serious CTFer (IG, lowgrav players don't count, IMO) to describe what he/she likes about a good CTF map. You'll get some sort of answer about balance, flow, and lack of snaggy smeshes.
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I agree 100% with Swedix on this one. People shovel out crap all the time, mostly a waste of bandwidth. It's all about the gameplay first, folks. Once you get that down, you can always 'pretty it up', so long as frame rates don't get killed.
Mappers need to spend time understanding what makes a level great, regardless of the gametype. DM maps need to flow, flow, flow. You should be able to effortlessly cycle through them, in several different ways. CTF and ONS maps need to promote teamwork, providing challenges for both offense and defense.
Every mapper out there should take a look at a lot of the better levels available, and understand what makes them work so well. Clawfist, Tonnberry, Lord Heisher, Plutonic.... the list goes on. No need to copy what they do, just understand why their levels work so well. THEN release your level....
Pete
-BeyondUnreal
Mappers need to spend time understanding what makes a level great, regardless of the gametype. DM maps need to flow, flow, flow. You should be able to effortlessly cycle through them, in several different ways. CTF and ONS maps need to promote teamwork, providing challenges for both offense and defense.
Every mapper out there should take a look at a lot of the better levels available, and understand what makes them work so well. Clawfist, Tonnberry, Lord Heisher, Plutonic.... the list goes on. No need to copy what they do, just understand why their levels work so well. THEN release your level....
Pete
-BeyondUnreal
When packs like these get released, It makes me glad I got the game...It's almost like getting a new game when the packs are released. Some of the maps are revolutionary and all the maps are great IMHO ...and I LOVE the high ratio of DM maps!
AS-Convoy was played to death (and i'm sure all the rest too) with boxes for platforms before it was even considered for prettyfication. All maps that want to ever be considered for respect should be treated to this sort of testing