CliffyB Talks Game Development

[Festering Anus]

Actually going to retail is a very expensive proposition. Publishers spend far more on duplication, inventory management, customer service, marketing, etc that they do on the initial development (in most instances, there's always exceptions).

Your math is slightly off as well, 50k at 50 bucks would net 2.5m in revenue (not profit), of which the retailer takes their cut, the distributor, the publisher, etc. In many instances (again, not all) selling 50k lifetime wouldn't justify the associated costs with selling in stores. It could very easily be a money losing proposition.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I understand what you are saying however 50k sales is still plenty to make SOME profit. The gaming industry seems to be only thinking about the really big investments, when there are still opportunities to make money and support PC gaming. Think about games that are digitally distributed on steam. The only costs they have to worry about are Marketing and Development (And server costs). This allows them to sell games that won't be all that popular and still make profit.

 

[Iron Archer]

Have you guys considered for a second that it could just be that the pc gamers of 5-10 years ago have moved on and are not in the position to build a new pc with every iteration of the shader profiles and/or graphical chipsets? I think you guys are looking too much at the gaming companies and not at the gamers, who ultimately decide the fate of gaming as a whole, as well as the saturation of the market when it comes to FPS games, on PC and console.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

Think about games that are digitally distributed on steam. The only costs they have to worry about are Marketing and Development (And server costs). This allows them to sell games that won't be all that popular and still make profit.

You don't think Valve takes their share?

 

[Anuban]

Seems to me your got your panties in a twist cause it doesnt support AA on DX9. Cry me and river...build a bridge....and get the **** over it.

If that is all you got out of what I was saying you really need to think about quitting gaming ... Can you read my sig ... do you see that I don't even use DX9? Use your brain next time before trying to be a smartazz.

 

[Beelzebud (Satanas)]

This farce is over.

I just uninstalled UT3 from my PC. The game is dead, and I'm not going to be around to attempt to resurrect it. I'll give my support to a company that has earned it. If only I had waited one week after it's release I could have saved myself $50. That could have been money spent on a game made by PC developers.

Maybe the PS3 users will learn UnrealEd and start making all of that "cool stuff" that Mark Rein is always blabbering about.

Happy trails.

 

[Anuban]

Have you guys considered for a second that it could just be that the pc gamers of 5-10 years ago have moved on and are not in the position to build a new pc with every iteration of the shader profiles and/or graphical chipsets? I think you guys are looking too much at the gaming companies and not at the gamers, who ultimately decide the fate of gaming as a whole, as well as the saturation of the market when it comes to FPS games, on PC and console.

Uhhh ... I think you are forgetting how well CoD4, BioShock, and the Orange Box have done on the PC. Also Oblivion ES and R6V so no that is not it all. There are tons of PC gamers with machines that can run UT3 ... if it were a solid product that wasn't based on an unstable PC engine.

 

[WarTourist]

You don't think Valve takes their share?

They do . Digital distribution does address a lot of inventory costs, but few are willing to go solely e-distribution with no retail presence. Even Valve discourages this approach.

And FWIW all UT3 SKUs totaled has outsold UT2004 by a fairly large margin worldwide. It's not an apples to apples comparison since UT2004 didn't have a console version, but considering half the SKUs haven't shipped yet (PS3 Euro/360), there's the definitely possibility it will be the best selling UT title in the franchise’s history.

 

[Beelzebud (Satanas)]

there's the definitely possibility it will be the best selling UT title in the franchise’s history.

And that's what really matters right! Who cares that it's not the most fun title in the franchises history. Who cares that it's not the best title in the franchises history. As long as it sells as much copies as McDonald's sells cheeseburgers, then it must be good!

 

[suibhne]

We agree, I wasn't making a general comment.
Consoles haven't stopped people developing big titles for the Pc nor will they for a while yet imo.

I didn't intend the second part of my message to be directed at you - sorry for that.

It's fine that Epic is now primarily a console developer. I'm glad they finally acknowledged it. My frustration is simply that A) they repeatedly insisted the exact opposite - that PC came first, that we were their "bread and butter" - as recently as several months ago; and B) their public reasoning for prioritizing consoles (that the PC market is in "disarray") doesn't hold water when you look at other games that continue to achieve success in the PC market.

 

[MonsOlympus]

They do . Digital distribution does address a lot of inventory costs, but few are willing to go solely e-distribution with no retail presence. Even Valve discourages this approach.

And FWIW all UT3 SKUs totaled has outsold UT2004 by a fairly large margin worldwide. It's not an apples to apples comparison since UT2004 didn't have a console version, but considering half the SKUs haven't shipped yet (PS3 Euro/360), there's the definitely possibility it will be the best selling UT title in the franchise’s history.

Wow kewl, perhaps a UC1+2 comparison vs the UT3 PS3 sales then or UT2003/UT2004 PC sales vs UT3 PC would be more fair?

I have been saying for awhile though that you guys could jump on the e-distribution bandwagon especially if its something which comes part of an engine licence. I mean Valve might be getting their fair share but I could imagine all UE3 titles being under one roof could be beneficial especially if it was independant from live for windows, then again that could cause some problems.

I must say though either shops wernt stocking UT3 PC or they were pretty sold out over christmas my friend and I had to go looking for a copy, we found 1 over priced copy in around 5 specialist game shops and that box was all squashed and stuff

When you say half I hope you dont mean that literally

 

[Sir_Brizz]

And that's what really matters right! Who cares that it's not the most fun title in the franchises history. Who cares that it's not the best title in the franchises history. As long as it sells as much copies as McDonald's sells cheeseburgers, then it must be good!

Depends on who you ask UT3 is the most fun game in the series to me so far, there are other reasons that I am annoyed by it than how it plays.

 

[WarTourist]

Depends on who you ask UT3 is the most fun game in the series to me so far, there are other reasons that I am annoyed by it than how it plays.

Yeah, we always got a kick out of "everything except the gameplay sucks", since we, like, make games.

 

[suibhne]

Yeah, we always got a kick out of "everything except the gameplay sucks", since we, like, make games.

That response is enlightening...but it's about as on-target as if MS claimed that interface and usability aren't important in Word because "we, like, make word processors".

 

[Severin]

Yeah, we always got a kick out of "everything except the gameplay sucks", since we, like, make games.

Then you obviously need to take such things more seriously.

 

[Beelzebud (Satanas)]

You get a kick out of having a non-functional server browser?

I've got news for you. The gameplay sucks too when you play modes other than DM or CTF. Nothing fun about playing a game that can't balance teams in between maps (or when they're just uneven), or playing in maps that are too small for the vehicles you crowd them with.

It's nice to know you're getting a kick out of it. I'll bet it's just a laugh riot, around the office, that the PC version of GoW STILL randomly deletes people's saved games.

At least someone is getting a kick out of your games.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

I like the gameplay in every gametype. In fact, I mostly play Warfare and I think it's great.

Also, at least one of the issues you just mentioned is already fixed in the upcoming patch.

And lastly it should be noted that People Can Fly ported Gears of War to PC.

 

[MonsOlympus]

Im sure there is a huge Epic logo on the box as well so it is alittle understandable people are directing their anger in the wrong direction. I didnt even know that another company had ported gears of war to PC, I was under the impression that Epic themselves did that.

All I remember hearing was something about a when you buy a game with an Epic logo on it you can expect quality, infact that was a guarantee.

But hey Im happy with my purchase of UT3, but yeah just thought something had to be said there

 

[Beelzebud (Satanas)]

All I remember hearing was something about a when you buy a game with an Epic logo on it you can expect quality, infact that was a guarantee.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

I'll know better from now on.

 

[Anuban]

Im sure there is a huge Epic logo on the box as well so it is alittle understandable people are directing their anger in the wrong direction. I didnt even know that another company had ported gears of war to PC, I was under the impression that Epic themselves did that.

All I remember hearing was something about a when you buy a game with an Epic logo on it you can expect quality, infact that was a guarantee.

But hey Im happy with my purchase of UT3, but yeah just thought something had to be said there

People Can Fly is Epic now ... they were not "officially" at that time ... make whatever assumptions you want to.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

Im sure there is a huge Epic logo on the box as well so it is alittle understandable people are directing their anger in the wrong direction. I didnt even know that another company had ported gears of war to PC, I was under the impression that Epic themselves did that.

All I remember hearing was something about a when you buy a game with an Epic logo on it you can expect quality, infact that was a guarantee.

But hey Im happy with my purchase of UT3, but yeah just thought something had to be said there

Epic bought People Can Fly before the game was finished, but I believe their logo is still on the box. It's kind of like Half-Life: Opposing Force. Valve's logo was still on there even though it was completely developed by Gearbox. Epic made Gears of War, PCF just ported it.

Also, I think Gears PC shows a lot more polish than UT3 does, but that can be almost entirely attributed to the fact that GFWL really was a plug and play solution since Gears already used XBL.

And lastly, most people having trouble have weird configurations or application conflicts. I had all kinds of trouble running Gears Co-op with Xfire running at the same time. Other than that, though, I haven't had any of the other problems people are reporting (not that some of them aren't valid, because I'm sure they are).