Changes in the next UT
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Sir_Brizz said:
What would you choose; a simple weapon that shoots some weird blue glass 'thingy's' or a *real gun with bullets ? I'd say the last one.
As this is a game, called Unreal, i'd go for the blue glass thingies. After all it is a game, called unreal, and you won't be playing it for realism.
Just as long as it's not as pussywhipped as in Unreal.
Just as long as it's not as pussywhipped as in Unreal.
I wouldn't double post either.
Getting back on-topic, they would probably chnage the secondary fire on the stinger, two shotgun-type weapons would be stupid.
Getting back on-topic, they would probably chnage the secondary fire on the stinger, two shotgun-type weapons would be stupid.
fireball
Reach out and torch someone
Though Unreal 1 had the flak cannon too, so it had two "shotgun" weapons... personally, I'd rather see the stinger get some kind of armor-piercing low-ROF secondary, but I doubt that'd happen.
I'm a little sad that AS is gone, but I'm pretty sure that once I play the game I won't miss it. I never play BR/DDOM, so I don't really care either way. No Skaarj though, that's going to be a little hard to stomach in an Unreal title.
I'm a little sad that AS is gone, but I'm pretty sure that once I play the game I won't miss it. I never play BR/DDOM, so I don't really care either way. No Skaarj though, that's going to be a little hard to stomach in an Unreal title.
Well, I shouldn't really respond because for some reason you believe the minigun is a real gun with real bullets and the stinger is obviously a fake gun with fake bullets.ÖöPs..ÌdÌëDäGäÌñ said:
But consider this. The minigun is HITSCAN, it does 12/20 right now (I believe, Aenubis?) That is ridiculous amount of damage for hardly being able to see where the bullets are coming from.
The stinger is projectile based, so you see the attacker, you see the bullets so you can dodge them, and likely it is more like the UC2 Stinger (which is really nothing like the "Classic" stinger other than in name).
Yes, I would rather have a gun I stand a chancce against than one I don't. How about that.
I thought it was 8/16 or something, but I haven't been keeping up with patches that may have changed it. It used to be a bit lower, but I do feel it has gotten stronger since I stopped paying attention...
Bri, UT was a much more "up close and person" game. The "pixel fraggin" as you call it was practically non-existant, unless you played a few silly custom maps. Other then the scaling being different, so the models appeared to be bigger, etc, it was rare you played a (T)DM map that it was possible to stand that far away from someone and be visible. A lot of the good gameplay maps forced you to be in close quarters with people, and barring a few of the nastier weapon (mini/sniper) the weapons were balanced for it, slower more powerful rockets, no blast radius on Flak bombs, less flak shards, cores traveled faster (increasing minimun combo range, and making moving combos much more difficult), slower beam ROF, and don't get me started on Bio. Well, I won't since it's apperantly been axed, so... There really was/is still a lot about that game I like better.
Not to mention the "environmental" features, and things mentioned in this thread. Any steps back towards stuff like that would be positive ones. Plus retaining features like the new projectile posession system, push kills, weapon balances, and I can't even imagine what it would be like being able to see the new model details on the old player scaling
It's good that you'll simply view it as a new game though, you kinda have to if you're not familiar with the entire franchise. Most of us that are seem better equipped to find the "positives" in seemingly drastic changes as some of these.
Oh, and here's a blurb about the UC2 Stinger... which sounds pretty cool to me...
"The stinger is a Liandri mining tool that fires shards of Tarydium crystal at an alarming rate. Continuous fire causes overheating, leading to a catalytic process that makes the shards even more deadly. The alternate fire shoots larger, semi-sapientshards that will veer towards a locked-on opponent."
Lock I'd assume achieved in the same way rockets do, hopefully not accompanied by a button hold ala-AVRiL, hence rewarding people with good trace skills, and supplementing the fact that it's not hitscan, but still enabling the target to see it's impending doom, and do something about it.
Bri, UT was a much more "up close and person" game. The "pixel fraggin" as you call it was practically non-existant, unless you played a few silly custom maps. Other then the scaling being different, so the models appeared to be bigger, etc, it was rare you played a (T)DM map that it was possible to stand that far away from someone and be visible. A lot of the good gameplay maps forced you to be in close quarters with people, and barring a few of the nastier weapon (mini/sniper) the weapons were balanced for it, slower more powerful rockets, no blast radius on Flak bombs, less flak shards, cores traveled faster (increasing minimun combo range, and making moving combos much more difficult), slower beam ROF, and don't get me started on Bio. Well, I won't since it's apperantly been axed, so... There really was/is still a lot about that game I like better.
Not to mention the "environmental" features, and things mentioned in this thread. Any steps back towards stuff like that would be positive ones. Plus retaining features like the new projectile posession system, push kills, weapon balances, and I can't even imagine what it would be like being able to see the new model details on the old player scaling
It's good that you'll simply view it as a new game though, you kinda have to if you're not familiar with the entire franchise. Most of us that are seem better equipped to find the "positives" in seemingly drastic changes as some of these.
Oh, and here's a blurb about the UC2 Stinger... which sounds pretty cool to me...
"The stinger is a Liandri mining tool that fires shards of Tarydium crystal at an alarming rate. Continuous fire causes overheating, leading to a catalytic process that makes the shards even more deadly. The alternate fire shoots larger, semi-sapientshards that will veer towards a locked-on opponent."
Lock I'd assume achieved in the same way rockets do, hopefully not accompanied by a button hold ala-AVRiL, hence rewarding people with good trace skills, and supplementing the fact that it's not hitscan, but still enabling the target to see it's impending doom, and do something about it.
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In UC2 you can use a sort of "soft lock on" to lock on to your enemies. It's purpose: to replace "auto aim". What it does is keep your enemy in your sights, but force you to aim at them to do anything to them. Alt fire on the stinger will make it veer towards the locked on person (you still have to aim because they aren't perfect and can't "veer" very far).
So it's more like assigning a target so they know where to veer? as opposed to being alble to spam them and have them veer at anything near your xhair?
sure ... and all they ever released was a barely playable alfa.BlackLeaf said:
I'd be glad if Assault was gone for good, because the maps required far too much time to build and still ended up as being predictable spam-fests at fixed locations.
IMHO ONS and Conquest are perfect replacements for Assault. Sure it might not have the pretty briefings & background, but at least they offer more tactics without being too complicated for newbies to play.
I'm not too sure about (D)DOM & BR dissapearing, but since they're essentially modifications of CTF they shouldn't be too difficult to bring back to life.
I would have reduced the list of 'official' gametypes to : DM, TDM, ONS & Conquest thereby giving the game a 'war-theme' as definite focus (DM & TDM to practice fighting, ONS to practice basic Conquest-tactics & Conquest for the 'real' deal). Mod-teams would still be able to build CTF et al of the back of the TDM gametype.
Dark Pulse
Dolla, Dolla. Holla, Holla.
CTF is pretty much a staple of games now, JaFO. Selling a game without CTF will kill any Multiplayer ideas if it's supposed to be a mostly Multiplayer game.
I know the primary does 7 damage per hit, and I think the secondary does 14. In either case, it's ridiculous the amount of damage it does due to how easy it is to use. If it had crazy recoil (think Rainbox Six where you have to pull down while shooting because the guns kicked up) it'd probably be more balanced. The rate of fire is crazy for doing 7 damage a hit.Sir_Brizz said:
You can't really tell where someone's shooting by the bullet tracers though, because just as in a real machine gun, only some of the bullets are tracer rounds, and those are the ones you see. Even then they're not true tracer rounds as the minigun IS hitscan after all, so it's just a fake animation that goes off in the general direction the bullets are flying. The actual bullets and sparks upon impact is all done instantaneously in the code, and if you took out the fake tracers and impact sparks, there would be no visual cue that the gun was being fired. Try this: Shoot the alternate fire once at a wall some distance away. You will see the explosion on the wall before the fake tracer gets there.
edhe said:
Then in that case, why keep the sniper and get rid of the LG ? :/
I will miss the LG and movement in the next game if it turns out the way it sounds atm, but chances are the community would be bigger (more ut style gameplay would attract UTT99 peeps) and thats always a good thing.
Im sure it will be a great game and i'll most likely get it
, just would disappoint me to not have the same level of freedom as in 2k4, and not having my fave weapon (LG) I am not here to proclaim any game type to be better than another. I am not here to proclaim that a game type or developement in the Unreal franchise sucks. I am here only to try to enlighten some people if they will consider my views.
Finally, I have made it to godlike skill in UT2004 (without autoaim). Only through many hours of practice have I accomplished such a feat. I am now proficient in being able to win on godlike for one reason - the practice I have put into it. Why do I practice so much? It is because I truly enjoy the game that Unreal Tournament has evolved into.
I remember waiting for UT2004 to ship, I was so anxiously waiting for the release. Never had I gotten so excited about a game or been fanatically obsorbed into it. Though I hadn't played many first person shooters prior to the release of UT2004, I knew the game had potential to be one of the greatest first person shooters ever created. I knew that it would take skill and mastering of the variety of weapons provided in order to succeed at becoming a master of the game.
But what was it that excited me about the game? It was the character of the game that made it stand apart from the generic types of shooter games such as the realistic weapon / team based Counter Strike and the rapid, uber quick reflexes of the rocket and semifuturistic weapons of Quake 3. How did it stand out? It took what was already popular but fading and revamped the excitement with inovation such as the biorifle and mine layer. The vibrant colors and artistic locales of the game impressed me when I compared it to the dull browns and beige colors of older shooter games. I am still playing UT2004 because I cannot find any other game that has impressed me as much as UT2004 has. I have even went back to the original UT and UT2003 to see how they feel in comparison to UT2004. I have only been able to conclude that UT2004 strikes a nice balance and feels the void that the other two have.
That is why I fear the next UT will dampen my enthusiasm. With UT2004, there was a variety of guns, so many that a player would probably not properly use each one per match. Though those weapons were often not equiped, their use was vital in some cases. More importantly, it gave players the value of selection. Each gamer has their own preference of weapon choice and it is their right to be given that choice. Such news of the removal of some guns and the replacement of others in the next UT disrupts that right to all gamers. I appreciate my lightning gun. I find I do better with it than with the sniper rifle. I can only best describe the effect of being able to see the location of the hit from the lightning projectile, compared to the instant hit without being able to see the bullet shot from the sniper rifle, as the reason why I do so much better.
Next concern that I have is the evolution of weapon design. Compared to the original UT, I will take the UT2003/2004 rocket launcher instead. It appears to be more modern in looks and suits a modern game more appropriately. Why must the community feel that the Unreal Tournament franchise must go back to its roots to be a quality game? Is the old style gaming that important for a new graphics engine? I want to see art that helps define a futuristic game such as the next UT.
Also, why the exclusion of certain character races? Such an act goes back to my earlier mention of the importance of diversity. The Skaarj have been very important definition to Unreal. I am a big fan of the Skaarj race. Am I the customer that buys the game not important enough for a little more time to be spent designing some Skaarj characters? What about those who want all of the other races not mentioned to be included so far? Are their gaming enjoyment and definition of who they are through the use of their chosen character not important?
Biggest fear that I have is the lack of mentioning the inclusion of Bombing Run, Assault, etc... Once again, there are some people that enjoy these game types very much. All because the majority of the gamers of UT2004 doesn't play these game types constantly doesn't mean they should be excluded. I don't play Bombing Run very often, but I will play a few rounds and truly enjoy the experience every now and then.
My point that I am trying to make is to diversify to help meet the needs of everyone who plays the game. Don't ask the next Unreal Tournament to return to its roots, ask it to be the continuing developement of a game that imbraces what was started by the original UT. I urge the Unreal community to stop trying to declare certaing aspects of the game superior to other parts. Instead, try to imbrace your COMMUNITY of fellow gamers and not ignore what they enjoy in a game compared to what you enjoy.
I can only hope that these issues will be resolved by the time the game is released or by the modding community that is out there with the sole determination to improve the gaming experience for gamers.
Oh, by the way, I have been enjoying UT2004 on godlike ran on a 900MHz Celeron, 384MB PC133 RAM, PCI Geforce 4 MX400, and a 133MHZ front side bus. Guess what? I would enjoy a round of UT2004 Bombing Run at literally 8 frames per second with last year's graphics than running the next UT at 60 frames per second with brilliant graphics but lacking in the variety of gameplay that I enjoy more.
-Spiffy
Finally, I have made it to godlike skill in UT2004 (without autoaim). Only through many hours of practice have I accomplished such a feat. I am now proficient in being able to win on godlike for one reason - the practice I have put into it. Why do I practice so much? It is because I truly enjoy the game that Unreal Tournament has evolved into.
I remember waiting for UT2004 to ship, I was so anxiously waiting for the release. Never had I gotten so excited about a game or been fanatically obsorbed into it. Though I hadn't played many first person shooters prior to the release of UT2004, I knew the game had potential to be one of the greatest first person shooters ever created. I knew that it would take skill and mastering of the variety of weapons provided in order to succeed at becoming a master of the game.
But what was it that excited me about the game? It was the character of the game that made it stand apart from the generic types of shooter games such as the realistic weapon / team based Counter Strike and the rapid, uber quick reflexes of the rocket and semifuturistic weapons of Quake 3. How did it stand out? It took what was already popular but fading and revamped the excitement with inovation such as the biorifle and mine layer. The vibrant colors and artistic locales of the game impressed me when I compared it to the dull browns and beige colors of older shooter games. I am still playing UT2004 because I cannot find any other game that has impressed me as much as UT2004 has. I have even went back to the original UT and UT2003 to see how they feel in comparison to UT2004. I have only been able to conclude that UT2004 strikes a nice balance and feels the void that the other two have.
That is why I fear the next UT will dampen my enthusiasm. With UT2004, there was a variety of guns, so many that a player would probably not properly use each one per match. Though those weapons were often not equiped, their use was vital in some cases. More importantly, it gave players the value of selection. Each gamer has their own preference of weapon choice and it is their right to be given that choice. Such news of the removal of some guns and the replacement of others in the next UT disrupts that right to all gamers. I appreciate my lightning gun. I find I do better with it than with the sniper rifle. I can only best describe the effect of being able to see the location of the hit from the lightning projectile, compared to the instant hit without being able to see the bullet shot from the sniper rifle, as the reason why I do so much better.
Next concern that I have is the evolution of weapon design. Compared to the original UT, I will take the UT2003/2004 rocket launcher instead. It appears to be more modern in looks and suits a modern game more appropriately. Why must the community feel that the Unreal Tournament franchise must go back to its roots to be a quality game? Is the old style gaming that important for a new graphics engine? I want to see art that helps define a futuristic game such as the next UT.
Also, why the exclusion of certain character races? Such an act goes back to my earlier mention of the importance of diversity. The Skaarj have been very important definition to Unreal. I am a big fan of the Skaarj race. Am I the customer that buys the game not important enough for a little more time to be spent designing some Skaarj characters? What about those who want all of the other races not mentioned to be included so far? Are their gaming enjoyment and definition of who they are through the use of their chosen character not important?
Biggest fear that I have is the lack of mentioning the inclusion of Bombing Run, Assault, etc... Once again, there are some people that enjoy these game types very much. All because the majority of the gamers of UT2004 doesn't play these game types constantly doesn't mean they should be excluded. I don't play Bombing Run very often, but I will play a few rounds and truly enjoy the experience every now and then.
My point that I am trying to make is to diversify to help meet the needs of everyone who plays the game. Don't ask the next Unreal Tournament to return to its roots, ask it to be the continuing developement of a game that imbraces what was started by the original UT. I urge the Unreal community to stop trying to declare certaing aspects of the game superior to other parts. Instead, try to imbrace your COMMUNITY of fellow gamers and not ignore what they enjoy in a game compared to what you enjoy.
I can only hope that these issues will be resolved by the time the game is released or by the modding community that is out there with the sole determination to improve the gaming experience for gamers.
Oh, by the way, I have been enjoying UT2004 on godlike ran on a 900MHz Celeron, 384MB PC133 RAM, PCI Geforce 4 MX400, and a 133MHZ front side bus. Guess what? I would enjoy a round of UT2004 Bombing Run at literally 8 frames per second with last year's graphics than running the next UT at 60 frames per second with brilliant graphics but lacking in the variety of gameplay that I enjoy more.
-Spiffy
Welcome to BU, spiffy.
Here's one word for everyone worried about the lack of their favorite gametype or character.... modifications.
Yeah, I know that the Unreal community has an allergy to mods, but maybe the lack of some familiar gametypes might spark the interest in some, who can then input their own rules and nuances into the gametype. Conquest is said to have "assault-like objectives". Who knows? Assault players (and others) may just like this better.
Fewer gametypes to develop means we get the full attention of the developer on the core gametypes. They can take more time polishing things to a shine rather than hopping around like bunnies trying to balance out all of them.
Missing your favorite weapon? It's way too early to tell what changes are taking place to the ones that have been mentioned.
Here's one word for everyone worried about the lack of their favorite gametype or character.... modifications.
Yeah, I know that the Unreal community has an allergy to mods, but maybe the lack of some familiar gametypes might spark the interest in some, who can then input their own rules and nuances into the gametype. Conquest is said to have "assault-like objectives". Who knows? Assault players (and others) may just like this better.
Fewer gametypes to develop means we get the full attention of the developer on the core gametypes. They can take more time polishing things to a shine rather than hopping around like bunnies trying to balance out all of them.
Missing your favorite weapon? It's way too early to tell what changes are taking place to the ones that have been mentioned.
Probably still safe to assume that the sniper rifle isn't going to be modified to shoot bolts of electricityhal said:
Actually, I wouldn't mind the sniper rifle at all if the damn thing's bullets were actually visible. Invisible bullets just don't mix well with a non-uber ping.
m&ms said:Probably still safe to assume that the sniper rifle isn't going to be modified to shoot bolts of electricity
Actually, I wouldn't mind the sniper rifle at all if the damn thing's bullets were actually visible. Invisible bullets just don't mix well with a non-uber ping.
Yeah, you might safely assume that the SniperRifle won't shoot electricity.
I have a pretty open mind about it because I happened to love the Unreal and UT SniperRifles. When UT2003 came out I hated the LtG. I have to admit that I got used to using it more in UT2004 and kind of like it now.
For those of you who have only the UT2004 SniperRifle to go by... don't. It's a wimpy weapon when compared to its previous incarnations.