Yesterday in Paris...

[NeoNite]

 

[dotnetbeast]

y'all read that Charlie Sheen article in the National Enquirer?

good guff, that.

Interesting thing. I saw that announcement on the same day that I finally saw Straight Outta Compton. Made me realize that maybe I should get myself tested.

 

[tomcat ha]

History justifies killing random people?
These perpetrators come from the midst of muslim communities from all over the world. That does not mean all muslims are terrorists but it means all muslims have one problem that needs to be solved.

no, my point was that looking at the history of the middle east with depth will explain why it is as it is. You need to understand how a problem like this has emerged to combat it effectively. Remember that we live in a society where the average attention span of someone doesn't go back more than a couple years.

I implied nothing but that there is a problem that needs solving.
If you had watched the youtube video I posted where Ayan Hirsi countless times repeats that islam needs reforms akin to the reforms that happened to catholicism through Martin Luther you should see one solution posed by a muslim.
Personally, my solution? People need to learn to not blindly put faith into words and justifications pandering to fulfill fantasy words, instead they should cherish life in all its variations. Educations should help.

The whole modern salafist movement is as close to martin luther islam has gotten. In general there has been an increased neoconservatism in the middle east in the last 100 years. Although i am not quite sure that this is even the correct term because a lot of these salafists come with stuff that nobody in the 7th century believed in.(from the earth being flat to various extremely simplistic interpretations of passages because all the other interpretations are 2 hard)

Spend a few minutes taking this page in:
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...ant-muslim-populations-much-disdain-for-isis/
At first blush you see it and go "Yeah, that's not too bad. I kinda figured it would be about that." What you aren't considering is that the average is getting fairly close to one person in ten being in support of radical islam. It seems to be a small number but that's way past the level where social reform is possible. That's millions and millions of people who support this ideology. It's obvious that it's now a problem that requires worldwide consideration and it's going to take a lot more to respond to besides drones and missiles.
Sadly I think the world is going to burn before this is sorted out. Eventually they will get a dirty bomb and hit some first or second tier nuclear power nation and that will require a respond-in-kind of some type. I just don't see a diplomatic/political solution to this. The only real way it could possibly be addressed is for muslims themselves to energetically condemn this behavior but that's a serious problem for the faith. At the core these radical guys are following the scripture. The muslim community can't condemn them scripturaly.

while i don't really doubt that support for extremist organisations is going up in a lot of islamic countries i wonder how this research was done. I've seen very shoddy research about isis support among turks in the netherlands that concluded that they were generally positive.

also actually there is a very long and storm history of theological analysis of the qu'ran and why Isis are just making stuff up as they go. The thing is the kids and people supporting isis(not counting the very large amount of otherwise starving mercenaries) don't care about this old fashioned old dude telling them what is and isn't right approach. They are alienated youth looking for something else entirely.

 

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

Exactly, what I've read about the subject supports what tomcat has to say.

But the sad thing is that most of you will probably just skim over it and not consider it. You are so easily manipulated by today's media...

 

[Jacks:Revenge]

yes and you're so insightful Leo.

you have uncovered the secret knowledge that the rest of us mere mortals have missed.
you have the key. you have the answers. you figured it out and you're more amazing than the rest of us could ever hope to be. thanks for opening our eyes Leo I don't know where we would be without your illuminating and inspiring intellect.

 

[NeoNite]

The big electron, like George carlin said. It doesn''t punish, it doesn't reward. It just is.

Without the leo our world would plunge into darkness. The trees would shrivel up and fade away. Animals would fall dead on the spot. The methane produced by the dead cows would suffocate humanity, and asteroids would rain down on our terraqueous orb. The sun's fiery tendrils would boil our former home and reduce it to the size of a teapot.
This teapot would head for Mars.

I don't know, let's just lock leo up ..just to be on the safe side.

 

[Balton]

no, my point was that looking at the history of the middle east with depth will explain why it is as it is. You need to understand how a problem like this has emerged to combat it effectively. Remember that we live in a society where the average attention span of someone doesn't go back more than a couple years.

I totally agree with you that history explains how we got to this point. That's the very idea of history
The original argument that lead to the exchange we're having right now was what level of involvement Islam did have for the current situation to become reality, I agree that short attention spans or non existing ones are a problem.

The whole modern salafist movement is as close to martin luther islam has gotten.

Could you explain that statement? Especially in relation to what salafis stand for.

In general there has been an increased neoconservatism in the middle east in the last 100 years. Although i am not quite sure that this is even the correct term because a lot of these salafists come with stuff that nobody in the 7th century believed in.(from the earth being flat to various extremely simplistic interpretations of passages because all the other interpretations are 2 hard)

Yeah, agree, it's something similar we've seen in the US at the fringes of society(Teaparty, In god we trust preppers, pro-lifers etc.), doesn't change that we're currently talking about extreme interpretations of the Koran used to justify the killing of innocent people. Innocent people of which a grotesquely huge number were muslims themselves, easily outnumbering the bodycount these extremists caused on what is called 'the west'.

edit: somewhere in that post I wanted to put something in about how my mind is still boggled how people would let themselves be snared by such cults for such heinous acts but then we have leo in here who'd believe anything you say as long as you give him the feeling of being on his side(the very thing that drives sectarianism?).

 

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

The fuck gives you that idea? I'm not like that.

Also...where would you want to lock me up and what do you mean by being on safe side.....Mulder....

 

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

You know what you fucking ignorant brats? It's no use trying to tell you something. You'll always get the wrong impression based on what you've "learned".

I'm having no incomke right now and each time I tried to go somewhere else now or them thinking I need to be re-evaluated, I got met with scepticism, disbelivied, people saying that all that paperwork and stuff is "inconclusive".

Out of being not believed a shit what you're saying and being stripped of all resources, do you think this is strange? You all waste your lives and bratting about stuff you have no idea what it's about and think you're on top of the world.

Who gave you that power, may I ask? Who?

If you go on like this you end up destroying yourself and your planet with it and by then by god's sake I hope that muslim terrorists will blow you up and that state of things will return to normal.

What happened to all of you, look at you how you were say in the 90s and look at you now. Aren't you a little bit ashamed to say the least?

You're the fucking radicals ramming your world-view down to anyone's throat and calling them uneducated if they disagree!! Education my ass!

 

[NeoNite]

Oh cool bowling up planets!! The funniest thing to do when ur board in the univeras!

 

[Al]

Fuck off, Leo. No one cares what you think.

 

[Jacks:Revenge]

I'm having no incomke right now

ohhhhhhh shit you guys.
it all makes sense now.

Leo is just frustrated and unemployed.
I think we all know how this story ends.

 

[NeoNite]

poor leo...

 

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

ohhhhhhh shit you guys.
it all makes sense now.

Leo is just frustrated and unemployed.
I think we all know how this story ends.

I wouldn't mind living there, I'd take it for any "prisons" I've been in lately...

And as for the second post, are you attempting to insult me?

Again, playing it low aren't we? Well it quite reflects your culture, "three money and no kids", making that point but at same time reinforcing the same twisted idea, because as obvious it is three money is worth nothing and if he says that he doesn't care about his kids, so the consumerism and "americanism" wins on all scale...

 

[NeoNite]

 

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

rofl

 

[tomcat ha]

Could you explain that statement? Especially in relation to what salafis stand for.

salafism is essentially a movement that came up with the decline of fortunes in the islamic world in the last couple years. The idea was that muslims had strayed from the path and that the islamic world should go back to what the salafists percieved as its real roots. This essentially means that they reject hundreds of years of theology and analysis of the qu'ran.
Now salafism first poked up in the 18th century in what is now saudi arabia but did not manage to get any real power untill the wahhabists bonded with the sauds. The sauds have spend a lot of their oil money on exporting their extreme view on islam and eventually in the course of the 20th century this led to them finding more and more disgruntled people in the islamic world to follow their ideals. Eventually even causing non sunni regions like iran to become as they have.