Holy shit I hope I don't have to use the single best thing to ever happen to PC gaming. I'd much rather spend hours looking on a bunch of message boards for updates. That way I can save 0.5% of CPU processing power by not having anything run in the background. Sometimes I even turn off my monitor while gaming so my PC has more juice available from my surge protector. I also require a physical copy of the game so I can try to install it 20 years later and complain when it doesn't work any more. Only fools like a digital library that allows you to just download the same game on any PC you want.
Mark Rein "Excited for Unreal Tournament Comeback"
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Steam workshop would be great, but Steam as a DRM isn't something I want to see.
As much as I use Steam for convenience, I still want to have my boxed copies that work well without it. One day, Steam is going to vanish, and I don't want to see a 300-game strong library go up in smoke.
As much as I use Steam for convenience, I still want to have my boxed copies that work well without it. One day, Steam is going to vanish, and I don't want to see a 300-game strong library go up in smoke.
You guys arguing against Steam are pretty much in the minority for PC gaming. I like DRM free, too, but I wouldn't trade the convenience and featureset of Steam for the freedom of zero DRM. In a DRM filled world, Steam is pretty much the only one getting the balance between DRM and freedom right. If it weren't for Steam, most PC games would have something FAR worse as opposed to most games having Steam today. I would consider that a huge win and I'm happy to support them for it.
Personally, I think Epic would be foolish to release the game without really tight Steam integration. It's one thing that UT3 really could have used (one of many things, I should say). It makes no valuable sense to try to replicate the features Steam has when it's already there, already extremely popular and heavily used in the industry. No other platform has the penetration that Steam has, and it is as likely to "go up in smoke" as Windows (probably less likely than that since they support OSX and Linux now).
Personally, I think Epic would be foolish to release the game without really tight Steam integration. It's one thing that UT3 really could have used (one of many things, I should say). It makes no valuable sense to try to replicate the features Steam has when it's already there, already extremely popular and heavily used in the industry. No other platform has the penetration that Steam has, and it is as likely to "go up in smoke" as Windows (probably less likely than that since they support OSX and Linux now).
GOG.com and its users are strictly DRM-free, and they're not that minor. Epic would be doing a mistake to lose that part of the market. I could see them doing two versions, Steam and DRM-free, though. UE4 probably makes it fairly easy to do that.
The one thing I dislike about current Steam is that you can no longer just move your directory to a new computer, or new hard drive. You have to download everything all over again. As others have said, if Steam goes away, you have no way of backing up your games and installing them again. You're simply SOL.
Okaaaaaaay, tried that over the summer and it did not work. Only fix was to re-download EVERYTHING as per what I was instructed on Steam. But okay.
GOG really is quite minor, with 9% of the digital market at most (last I checked). As much as I would love to play without being told that the servers are busy every time there's a new release or big sale, Steam being required is pretty much a given at this point. Besides, this new UT will probably be F2P if the community is going to have a heavy hand in its development. I'll probably still play when it does need Steam, but a Steamless version would be nice.
I don't see why Steamworks/Steam workshop being optional would be such a bad thing. Plenty of Skyrim modders either stick with NexusMods or use it and Steam at the same time. UT4 or whatever could be the same way. Modders could use Steam Workshop exclusively if they wanted to, or they could use it and another site, or they could abstain from using Steam. Everybody would win, the idea of which makes some people foam at the mouth for some reason.
I keep my Steam install/games on another hard drive (not my Windows drive) and I've never had to redownload anything after a reinstall or upgrade of Windows.
Also, Steam haters are hilarious.
The discussion about Steam has made me put my own opinion in about the platform. I like Valve and Steam as a whole, but I don't have this Godly and omnipotent view of them, as most people do. They filled a market which would have been filled anyway if developers got off their backsides and implemented online distrubtion. Some experimented with it and thought it better to not tamper with a simple formula.
I'm actually holding off on excitement until there is some more detail. A lot more detail in fact.
I don't think Steam will be going away any time soon. Steam will be involved so we are probably going to see the season pass DLC marketing model.
Should it be an open world sandbox? If they follow current trends it will be.
Free to play with added micro-transactions? Cash (Nali) cow.
As much as I'm a huge fan of the Elder Scrolls titles nothing about Elder Scrolls Online has convinced me to shell out money Warcraft style to play it.
So; I'm waiting to see what they intend to deliver in the hope they don't kill whatever used to be good about the franchise.
Now there's some good nostalgia!
.... and personally I couldn't care less about Cliffy B's non-involvement.
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Steam.. maybe..
More likely I think they will have some kind of in-game (or pre-game launcher) marketplace just like the engine itself does. In fact, probably just part of the existing marketplace in it's own UT section as such.
I can only assume they would simplify installing and choosing mods, which update automatically when the author puts up a new version etc.
That..
UT3 sucked.. hard.. when it came to installing mods, and it was horrible setting them up for release.
More likely I think they will have some kind of in-game (or pre-game launcher) marketplace just like the engine itself does. In fact, probably just part of the existing marketplace in it's own UT section as such.
I can only assume they would simplify installing and choosing mods, which update automatically when the author puts up a new version etc.
That..
UT3 sucked.. hard.. when it came to installing mods, and it was horrible setting them up for release.
My second speculation is they will make available the option to sell content. I know a lot of cheapskates would completely oppose that idea but it would be excellent for the community in the end.
Most stuff would remain free anyway (don't freak out lol) but I think that would encourage some really big, awesome, more professional, projects - knowing you might be able to sell the final release for a dollar or two.
Most stuff would remain free anyway (don't freak out lol) but I think that would encourage some really big, awesome, more professional, projects - knowing you might be able to sell the final release for a dollar or two.
I really don't care too much either way about Steam. It's there as a way of getting games and I have gotten some great deals from Steam over the years.
It's the games that are important not the box they come in.... at least for me.
Some stats say it's 15%. But regardless, that's not a minor number at all. That's a good deal of profit.
I don't hate Steam, I hate the very concept of DRM and vendor lock-in. The few DRM-free games that are on Steam are just fine by me.
I left Windows for fairly similar reasons to why I left Steam. And I don't regret that one bit. It's very liberating to be free the influence of all the big corporations, have choice, actually own the software I use, and to make a difference to the developers or the software itself. Sure, I have a more limited selection of games, but that selection is still huge, and lesser known games are not any worse. Plus more and more are coming out, those whose developers actually respect their customers' freedom. Buying things from them makes me feel good just because of that: I know my money is going to the right hands, to support those that advance the ideas I support myself. And fewer games to buy means I spend less money, and spend more time doing something useful (like modding DRM-free ones
). Not to mention that it gives guarantees that the game will always work just as well as it did on the day of purchase, even if the apocalypse started.So sure, you are free to laugh, but to me it's sad seeing Steam-lovers, because sacrificing freedom for a bit of convenience is a bad deal, no matter how you put it. Not that many people here would understand, given that the community here seems to be built on cynicism more than anything
true, but i still want a box. my ut99, 2003, 2004 & ut3 (collectors edition, first time preorder) are still on display in my living room. even have to fight for that showcase spot... you catch the drift (hint:
)not going to preorder this time tho. my disappointment after installing ut3 and seeing it was basically the demo (with all its flaws) with more maps branded me forever
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Well, the idea was solid. As much as it could be under MS rules, anyway.
The whole My Documents system makes sense from a security point of view, and it's something Microsoft copied from Unix-like systems, or rather tried and mostly failed: you're supposed to have an administrator account that can change system settings and files, and a user account that can do neither, only change local files. That way viruses cannot do anything to the core system without having access to the administrator password.
The problem was that Windows, unlike Unix, was never made with that in mind. On Unix everything is read-only for users except files under /home. On Windows the assumption is the opposite, everything is read-write except C:\Windows. Starting from Vista MS decided to make more folders read-only to users, including Program Files. Hence now users cannot install mods into the game's folder any more – as they should have from the start (on Linux all UT2004 mods have always gone into /home/user/.ut2004, while the game files are in /usr or /opt and thus read-only).
But of course that was confusing for Windows users, coming with different expectations, and difficult to implement due to Windows not having a virtual filesystem tree. So putting everything into My Documents was the only reasonable thing. Doing it the old style would completely break the system (hence why Vista broke a lot of legacy apps that used that old scheme).
The mods that had to be put into Program Files were either doing something wrong, or had to replace some built-in files to go around some limitation or another. Granted, UT3 had quite a few issues with mod support from the get-go, so I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't extensively test the system, either.
In UT4 the same system will have to be used, it may just be abstracted and enforced more strictly. All mod installers will automatically write into My Documents and only My Documents.
Also, woo, the announcement day is today. It will be interesting to hear it.
