Mark Rein "Excited for Unreal Tournament Comeback"

[Sir_Brizz]

GOG.com and its users are strictly DRM-free, and they're not that minor. Epic would be doing a mistake to lose that part of the market. I could see them doing two versions, Steam and DRM-free, though. UE4 probably makes it fairly easy to do that.

Maybe not, but I also guarantee you that many of the people who own games on GOG also own them on Steam, and GOG doesn't do anything to solve mod discoverability, which UTX needs to solve if it is going to succeed.

More likely I think they will have some kind of in-game (or pre-game launcher) marketplace just like the engine itself does. In fact, probably just part of the existing marketplace in it's own UT section as such.

I really don't think they will do this. The file space hosting requirements would be astronomical. Right now, they decide what goes on the engine launcher. I would be surprised if it is set up to handle the absolute volume of content that UT games have, especially if the maps are anywhere near as large as UT3 maps. Valve already operates with that expectation and have a system designed for it.

That being said, I would be satisfied if they had their own system. It just seems silly to reinvent the wheel here. And their launcher has none of the other nice features that Steam has.

The discussion about Steam has made me put my own opinion in about the platform. I like Valve and Steam as a whole, but I don't have this Godly and omnipotent view of them, as most people do. They filled a market which would have been filled anyway if developers got off their backsides and implemented online distrubtion. Some experimented with it and thought it better to not tamper with a simple formula.

That is true, except if they hadn't filled it, we would have Digital River, and SecuROM and TAGES filling the market. I'm not a true fan of DRM, but Steam adds significantly more than (what someone else called) "a bit of convenience". There is simply not a more convenient platform with as many additional customer-focused features for getting and playing games available today anywhere else.

 

[DeathBooger]

It's the games that are important not the box they come in.... at least for me.

Wrong. It's the super exclusive pre-order DLC that's important. Haven't you been paying attention?

 

[ambershee]

No other platform has the penetration that Steam has, and it is as likely to "go up in smoke" as Windows (probably less likely than that since they support OSX and Linux now).

The number of games orientated companies that have lasted for thirty years can be counted on the fingers of your hands.

 

[hal]

Speaking of UT3 Hellbender, it became essentially a "single-player" vehicle. Since rear turret charges itself without being manned, and it's nigh impossible to aim at speed, there's no point of having dedicated player manning the turret. It's hard to synchronize actions of driver and gunner, and it's just simpler and more effective just to let driver rapidly switch to gunner, fire, and then switch back, usually in less than one second.

My favorite memories of the Hellbender include finding a little hole to park in, while the driver covers foot traffic with skymines and the turret takes out those other annoying vehicles.

You're right though, trying to shoot anything from the turret while the vehicle is in motion is nearly pointless.

I have mixed feelings about the vehicles, in general. I had fun playing with them, but it was painfully obvious how much it needed to be its own game. They tried correcting the player mobility with the hoverboards (which didn't do much imo), but the weapons were still horribly unbalanced with the vehicles.

 

[N1ghtmare]

Because when valve implodes everything will just go *poof*. Nobody will try and buy up the assets. Nobody will create alternate platforms. Other game companies won't mind when a majority of their players instantly vanish.

 

[AlteredForms]

That is true, except if they hadn't filled it, we would have Digital River, and SecuROM and TAGES filling the market. I'm not a true fan of DRM, but Steam adds significantly more than (what someone else called) "a bit of convenience". There is simply not a more convenient platform with as many additional customer-focused features for getting and playing games available today anywhere else.

Steam has been around for over a decade. It would be surprising if it didn't dominate the digital distrubtion after all the time, money and effort that has been pooled into it. If it hadn't got around to it first, then Direct2Drive would be taking the premier spot and IGN would be making more money than ever.

The fact of the matter lies in how convenient Steam is, but not how revelatory the platform as a whole is percieved to be.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

The number of games orientated companies that have lasted for thirty years can be counted on the fingers of your hands.

You can say the same thing about computer oriented companies. Move that dial ahead ten years and it gets much larger, and again ten more years and it gets even more large. Steam brings in a huge amount of revenue, is integrated with dozens (if not hundreds) of companies products, and is used by over 30 million people. It's not likely to disappear.

Steam has been around for over a decade. It would be surprising if it didn't dominate the digital distrubtion after all the time, money and effort that has been pooled into it. If it hadn't got around to it first, then Direct2Drive would be taking the premier spot and IGN would be making more money than ever.

The fact of the matter lies in how convenient Steam is, but not how revelatory the platform as a whole is percieved to be.

Direct2Drive existed before Steam, as did DigitalRiver. Both absolutely horrendous solutions that would have led to exorbitantly invasive DRM becoming the norm. The only reason that ridiculous DRM schemes have mostly disappeared (including limited machine activations) is because of Steam. If Steam wasn't around, those would be common and probably the majority of PC games would be sold with them. I think it's a pretty big deal that Steam came about and dominated the market in the face of that potential future.

Considering the direction the industry was going as recently as 2008, I don't think it's wrong to be pretty grateful that Steam exists.

 

[Raynor.Z]

I'm probably one of those individuals who will avoid Steam where possible.
While it's the convenient way to buy games digitally and has mostly transparent DRM, it's still DRM. Anything that has online (even initial) requirement to work is a big negative for me. It's also a matter of ownership versus rental.

That's why I'm hoping if Epic announces new UT title (in whatever form), it's not exclusively tied to Steam or similar platform.

 

[DeathBooger]

Epic released a UE4 roadmap here:
https://trello.com/b/gHooNW9I/ue4-roadmap

Lookie here:
https://trello.com/c/1u7qvfrE

Probably unrelated, but I like stirring pots.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

Epic released a UE4 roadmap here:
https://trello.com/b/gHooNW9I/ue4-roadmap

Lookie here:
https://trello.com/c/1u7qvfrE

Probably unrelated, but I like stirring pots.

Hopefully unrelated...

 

[Wail of Suicide]

I agree with this, but this game is going to be made by content discoverability. They HAVE TO integrate Steam Workshop or something very similar (why reinvent the wheel here?) this time. Custom content is the coup de grace of the Unreal Engine and Unreal Tournament. It had better be the focus of this game.

On the other hand, letting it be too "open" could have its own drawbacks.

Agreed with this. Way back in 2005-6 era I was suggesting that UT3 should have some kind of built in mod search and P2P (torrent) client functionality to search, install, and distribute mods.

Steam Workshop is essentially everything I envisioned on that front and it's amazing. It's too bad that Epic was not forward thinking enough at the time to incorporate something like that with UT3. But I think Steam Workshop has showed a lot of people that modding games isn't just a fringe benefit but a core feature to many games. It always has been with past UT titles, and for Portal 2, Skyrim, and others it's there now.

About 12 hours to go.

 

[ambershee]

Indeed - I couldn't envision a future UT without Steam Workshop, or at least a direct equivalent.

Trouble is, you know that Epic is going to require you to subscribe to UE4 to mod their new games.... :/

 

[WGH]

Trouble is, you know that Epic is going to require you to subscribe to UE4 to mod their new games.... :/

If that were true, modding would be almost dead (except extreme enthusiasts). Because I doubt many people would pay additional money for the sake of game that's not theirs (and with no profit).
Besides, what's the problem with giving the mod tools? Epic can't fear of engine being "stolen" that way, because it already is. Rights to use the engine are enforced mostly legally, not technically, anyway.

 

[ambershee]

This was my argument - but that is what they intend to do. UE4 games are also not allowed to ship any part of the editor with the product.

My own game intends to ship at $10-15. I don't think people will be happy to pay an extra $19 just to get mod support :/

 

[WGH]

but that is what they intend to do. UE4 games are also not allowed to ship any part of the editor with the product.

Any proof of that, by the way? The first part, that is.

 

[GreatEmerald]

Trouble is, you know that Epic is going to require you to subscribe to UE4 to mod their new games.... :/

That can't be right. UE4 is a moving target. UT4 is not. If you subscribe to UE4, you can't mod UT4, because they will have too many differences.

 

[ambershee]

I've pointed this out. You can get older versions and branches, however it means you have to recompile the source code yourself before you get a working editor.

Any proof of that, by the way? The first part, that is.

From discussion with the man Tim Sweeney himself.

 

[WGH]

From discussion with the man Tim Sweeney himself.

So basically it's just a rumour.

 

[GreatEmerald]

I've pointed this out. You can get older versions and branches, however it means you have to recompile the source code yourself before you get a working editor.

Huh? I still don't quite get it... Does UE4 include all branches from all games? And what doesn't it include? Assets? Else you'd have no reason to buy UT4, you could just buy UE4 and compile it.

Also, if every game has their own branch, then this is very scary in terms of updates. I'd be fine with $20 for getting access to modding tools; I would not be fine with having to shell out $20 after every patch.

 

[ambershee]

So basically it's just a rumour.

No. It's what he actually said. I dug this out of a chatlog:

One of the things that excites us greatly is the prospect of UE4 developers creating moddable games

The intended workflow is that mod makers would obtain UE4 access by subscribing here, getting access to the mainline Epic version of the code and tools. You'd then expose your version of the tools (if they differ from mainline) and the C++ source code (if you choose to share it) with the community via a GitHub fork which is open to current UE4 subscribers you choose to give access.

This workflow works right now and is supported by the EULA. Over time hopefully we can find a more polished approach to redistributing the tools.

The benefit of keeping mods in the UE4 community is the Marketplace providing a way for everyone (indies, mod makers, and even triple-A) teams having access to a stream of new content, and a straightforward means of sharing some/all game code in GitHub via fork.

Edit: Original source:
https://forums.unrealengine.com/sho...ean-that-games-cant-be-moddable&p=706#post706