![[5thSFG]Mitchell](/data/avatars/s/56/56256.jpg?1424422906){kind=avatar}
Having made a couple of codes for OFP, I kinda know how can someone feels when he heards "ehi, your code is crap! Do this and that and...", but that's the worst way to report a bug, because you criticize rather than help... :|
And my quest for realistic fps goes on...
- Thread starter Turin_Turambar
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geogob
Koohii o nomimasu ka?
I guess that explains why codes tend to be so bad
The level of detachment you suggest, I have not seen it often among mod developers. Most of the time, they cannot give a level headed response to critics and input, regardless of how constructive that input may be. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that most coders working on mods are not professional coders. They do not do this professionally nor wish to do it that way. They do to not want professional pressure levels applied to their hobby. Can we blame them for that? I can't.
On the other hand, lacking respect towards those providing positive input is not acceptable.
I think my point wasn't clear though. I think zeep essentially got it. Carpet, not so much
It's not about wanting to have your work reviewed. It's about learning to cope with the reviews. Warning users that the code is unstable and experimental, that's fine. But you shouldn't have to hide behind this excuse... but we all do at some point and at different level.
I find the genre of the game reflects coders behaviour.
For oblivion or morrowind mods, coders not only welcomed criticism but would hold ad hoc testing sessions where fans would provide bug testing via forums and have hours f back and forth trying to isolate and correct a bug.
FPS games tend to attract hot headed coders looking to make the next counter strike while more specialized niche mods (like INF ;D) attract people doing it for the love of it.
It's the same for any endeavor that requires a certain amount of skill and practice to master.
Zeep you work with music, I'm sure you've seen this when meeting other composers/musicians in your time.
For oblivion or morrowind mods, coders not only welcomed criticism but would hold ad hoc testing sessions where fans would provide bug testing via forums and have hours f back and forth trying to isolate and correct a bug.
FPS games tend to attract hot headed coders looking to make the next counter strike while more specialized niche mods (like INF ;D) attract people doing it for the love of it.
It's the same for any endeavor that requires a certain amount of skill and practice to master.
Zeep you work with music, I'm sure you've seen this when meeting other composers/musicians in your time.
Telling people to ``shut the **** up'' is very unfriendly!
When someone puts a bug up me or has a problem with some of my co*k, I always spank them for wasting my time... And I think people who don't do me (Or even tell other people to **** me) have a serious libido problem.
you're a horny lil guy
j/k
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Yes. That's how i learned to cope with critisism. After trial and error you learn how to be objective and respond professionally. The sooner developers learn that the better off they're gonna be. Critisism is only negative if you allow it to be.
Is anyone playing this mod anyway?
I downloaded and meant to try, but I am not motivated enough to really do, I expect the game not to please me, but maybe it might be better than I think (which I doubt).
I actually was on their forum some years ago explaining how I think relism have to be, since they claimed to go for as much realism as possible, back then. Later they released skreens, with their "every game generic weapon posturing", I told it is not properly done, most agreed, but since then I knew what course they sail and your critique arguments that you brought up in this thread before Zeep just confirm it, so... another fail.
I just lean back and wait for Sky Gods (Blackfoots pre Ground Branch title) to be released either December or May.
I actually was on their forum some years ago explaining how I think relism have to be, since they claimed to go for as much realism as possible, back then. Later they released skreens, with their "every game generic weapon posturing", I told it is not properly done, most agreed, but since then I knew what course they sail and your critique arguments that you brought up in this thread before Zeep just confirm it, so... another fail.
I just lean back and wait for Sky Gods (Blackfoots pre Ground Branch title) to be released either December or May.
Forgotten Hope is worth checking out. Has a community. Battlefield engine but don't run away just yet ... it's realistic, I know, because BF fraggers can't stand it. There's also http://bgfmod.com/
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I am surprised you didn't mention Project Reality. It has far more emphasis on realism and a robust MP community. My only real gripe with FH2 is how low the server population is for a relatively new, long- awaited mod.
I am currently downloading the latest version of Insurgency (HL2 mod) and it certainly bears mention in the realism genre.
Last but not least ArmA offers plenty of realism and there are plenty of mods in the pipeline for that game. Anyone who has followed OFP can appreciate what that community is capable of creating given enough time.
If you are broke Hidden and Dangerous is now a free game and offers plenty in the way of iron sighted goodness. H&D2 isn't bad either.
Personally I have been playing the latest version of Day of Defeat: Source and while not all of the weapons have a true iron sights view the rifleman class does and its pretty sweet. Fun, fast paced game. Reminds me most of INF as the other games mentioned generally deserve to played with a more deliberate pace.
I never forget where my "realism" roots took hold. Glad to see this forum is still up.
I am surprised you didn't mention Project Reality. It has far more emphasis on realism and a robust MP community. My only real gripe with FH2 is how low the server population is for a relatively new, long- awaited mod.
I am currently downloading the latest version of Insurgency (HL2 mod) and it certainly bears mention in the realism genre.
Last but not least ArmA offers plenty of realism and there are plenty of mods in the pipeline for that game. Anyone who has followed OFP can appreciate what that community is capable of creating given enough time.
If you are broke Hidden and Dangerous is now a free game and offers plenty in the way of iron sighted goodness. H&D2 isn't bad either.
Personally I have been playing the latest version of Day of Defeat: Source and while not all of the weapons have a true iron sights view the rifleman class does and its pretty sweet. Fun, fast paced game. Reminds me most of INF as the other games mentioned generally deserve to played with a more deliberate pace.
I never forget where my "realism" roots took hold. Glad to see this forum is still up.
Indeed, the scene for realistic shooters is looking increasingly depressing these days. I've been trying to play games like RSV2 and BIA3 on 360 lately and it's just a disapointment. This mod sounds decent though, so I might give it a try when it gets a little further along in development.
How is the weapon handling at this point? Does it have Red Orchestra levels of arcade SMG recoil, or is it more like INF?
IMO, every shooter should have the following aiming system features:
1) full, 90 degree FOV, unzoomed IS mode for peripheral vision
2) optional 45 degree zoom for distance vision
3) instead of hip shooting with lots of conefire/innacuracy, should have shouldered fire with reasonable accuracy (if you manage the freeaim system well and get someone in your line of fire, they should get hit)
4) should retain full range of motion (both walking and jogging) while in IS mode, particularly in unzoomed view, with penalties on the bobbying/steadiness of your weapon. Jogging with your IS should not give you a steady shot, but going to IS should not magically strap invisible lead boots to your feet. Using IS should always feel flexible, intuitive, and instinctual
Inf's system with the aimview or truescale mutator was pretty damn optimal. My only complaint would be the hipfire, I liked Insurgency's shoulder fire better.
I tried Insurgency when it first came out (review here) but was pretty disapointed. It had some nice features here and there but the combination of bad community and hit-or-miss design brought it down.
Also bear in mind that ArmA 2 is in the works, perhaps that'll be a real winner when it comes out.
I am also tempted to try my hand at modding RSV2. With some tweaks to weapon characteristics (for example, performance which actually matches the caliber of the rifle) it would be fun to play just for simple fun with campaign and coop terrorist hunt. I recall someone else was trying this out last year...wonder if they had any success...
How is the weapon handling at this point? Does it have Red Orchestra levels of arcade SMG recoil, or is it more like INF?
Yeah, I was noticing that too. The ultra-zoomed IS view used by most shooters these days has gotten really old, particularly after playing BIA3, where not only do they zoom in too far, but they use a depth of field effect to blur everything in your view that's not immediately behind your ironsights. It also doesn't help that all of these games exhibit a huge lag time when going to IS mode and gigantic movement and turning speed penalties. Using your sights should not have the stick-up-the-ass tank-like feel of moving around in an early Resident Evil game.
IMO, every shooter should have the following aiming system features:
1) full, 90 degree FOV, unzoomed IS mode for peripheral vision
2) optional 45 degree zoom for distance vision
3) instead of hip shooting with lots of conefire/innacuracy, should have shouldered fire with reasonable accuracy (if you manage the freeaim system well and get someone in your line of fire, they should get hit)
4) should retain full range of motion (both walking and jogging) while in IS mode, particularly in unzoomed view, with penalties on the bobbying/steadiness of your weapon. Jogging with your IS should not give you a steady shot, but going to IS should not magically strap invisible lead boots to your feet. Using IS should always feel flexible, intuitive, and instinctual
Inf's system with the aimview or truescale mutator was pretty damn optimal. My only complaint would be the hipfire, I liked Insurgency's shoulder fire better.
Yeah, ARMA is the one title in this genre I have yet to try. Thinking of upgrading my cpu so I can try it out. That would also make Project Reality a lot more playable.
I tried Insurgency when it first came out (review here) but was pretty disapointed. It had some nice features here and there but the combination of bad community and hit-or-miss design brought it down.
Also bear in mind that ArmA 2 is in the works, perhaps that'll be a real winner when it comes out.
I am also tempted to try my hand at modding RSV2. With some tweaks to weapon characteristics (for example, performance which actually matches the caliber of the rifle) it would be fun to play just for simple fun with campaign and coop terrorist hunt. I recall someone else was trying this out last year...wonder if they had any success...
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Yep, BIA3 is really bad, RSV2 is between average and mediocre.
R&L is as slow as i wrote months ago, there isn't a new version still.
Arma 2 / Operation Flashpoint 2 are a mistery.
How is Ground Branch / Sky Gods going?
R&L is as slow as i wrote months ago, there isn't a new version still.
Arma 2 / Operation Flashpoint 2 are a mistery.
How is Ground Branch / Sky Gods going?
S
StevenGarcia
Guest
I have written a reply, but thought it would fit better in the original thread, so I just link it:
http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showthread.php?p=2208136#post2208136
http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showthread.php?p=2208136#post2208136
Insurgency is still pretty meh if anyone was wondering.
I had a go because Valve are now supporting mods with Steam so that and four other mods appeared on My Games.
Movement mechanics are OK. Weapons felt a bit insubstantial (dunno if that's the sound or what). I quite liked how they did scopes.
The maps are a sight to behold. They've clearly put some love into the detail and textures.
It had this really annoying distance fog and the entire game revolves around trying to squint out moving blobs of pixels in the distance fog.
Overall it wasn't crap but it wasn't great.
I had a go because Valve are now supporting mods with Steam so that and four other mods appeared on My Games.
Movement mechanics are OK. Weapons felt a bit insubstantial (dunno if that's the sound or what). I quite liked how they did scopes.
The maps are a sight to behold. They've clearly put some love into the detail and textures.
It had this really annoying distance fog and the entire game revolves around trying to squint out moving blobs of pixels in the distance fog.
Overall it wasn't crap but it wasn't great.
Rasalom hooked me up with cod4. The other night Crowze, Rasa and me had fun playing. On selected servers, slower speed and hardcore gamemode (no x-hair, max realism), no bunnyhopping etc, it's really quite good. Maybe next time i make a video when we're playing.
Back to ins, cod4 is much better easy.
Back to ins, cod4 is much better easy.
I haven't kept up with the INS development. It's been quite awhile ago, but I think the reason I quit playing INS was when I realized they had the 'eye height' problem. Ya' know what I mean? The same thing UT3 had.... where the guy shooting at you thinks he's got his head and gun sticking out over top of the cover he's hiding behind, but from your POV he's actually completely hidden (thus ruining the game). Was that ever fixed in INS? (Forgive me if this is reeally old news)
And I was desperate for some kind of realism game to play, so I just recently picked up COD4 on a whim, and started to give the MP portion a shot. Then I realized that you can shoot straight through brick walls and cement barriers -hell, even a combination of both!!- and that blew it for me.
Then I thought maybe it was only due to the 'perks', so I looked for a way to turn them off and didn't find it. So I started looking into this OpenWarfare mod http://openwarfaremod.com/owforum/index.php, and I'm still trying to figure stuff out in there. Maybe it can improve things a bit?
It's not like I'm some kind of ballistics expert or anything, just an old INF fan, looking for a replacement. But I really didn't think shooting straight through a whole brick house and then a cement barrier without so much as deflecting the bullet was a good idea. If I can find a way to remove that nonsense, and maybe a few more tweaks as well, I might be able to play it as some sort of 'filler' until something better comes along. (for me, anything WW2 related isn't even considered).
Anyway, I'm just an old fart who misses INF - so I stop in this forum section once in awhile to see what you guys are suggesting. Looking forward to that stuff Blackfoot is making.
Cheers!
Edit: Here's a quote from gentleman on the OpenWarfare mod team "There are a lot of old farts here (including me!). I used to play a lot of UT but I never played that ING gametype. If you can send me information, links, etc, describing how the game is played in that mode then I'm sure we can try to write it for COD4."
And of course he means INF. So..., I'll give him an answer, but if anybody who is much more of an expert than me would also like to reply... please do. http://openwarfaremod.com/owforum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=492
And I was desperate for some kind of realism game to play, so I just recently picked up COD4 on a whim, and started to give the MP portion a shot. Then I realized that you can shoot straight through brick walls and cement barriers -hell, even a combination of both!!- and that blew it for me.
Then I thought maybe it was only due to the 'perks', so I looked for a way to turn them off and didn't find it. So I started looking into this OpenWarfare mod http://openwarfaremod.com/owforum/index.php, and I'm still trying to figure stuff out in there. Maybe it can improve things a bit?
It's not like I'm some kind of ballistics expert or anything, just an old INF fan, looking for a replacement. But I really didn't think shooting straight through a whole brick house and then a cement barrier without so much as deflecting the bullet was a good idea. If I can find a way to remove that nonsense, and maybe a few more tweaks as well, I might be able to play it as some sort of 'filler' until something better comes along. (for me, anything WW2 related isn't even considered).
Anyway, I'm just an old fart who misses INF - so I stop in this forum section once in awhile to see what you guys are suggesting. Looking forward to that stuff Blackfoot is making.
Cheers!
Edit: Here's a quote from gentleman on the OpenWarfare mod team "There are a lot of old farts here (including me!). I used to play a lot of UT but I never played that ING gametype. If you can send me information, links, etc, describing how the game is played in that mode then I'm sure we can try to write it for COD4."
And of course he means INF. So..., I'll give him an answer, but if anybody who is much more of an expert than me would also like to reply... please do. http://openwarfaremod.com/owforum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=492
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So this is where you are hiding? I guess nowadays everything is better than playing INFiltration (and worse at the same time).
Cool link
CoD4 is an stunning game to watch but playing it online on a pub server got old fast as the speed and spawn of the game were way too rapid and never seemed to allow any sort of real teamwork. I have played it on hardcore with friends on a private server and it was lots of fun for a while. Eventually it still left me feeling like it was designed for run-n-gun, non-stop action with no real co-operative considerations. I will definitely check out this mod. Thanks for the post.
For anyone interested in learning more about ArmA check out this site:
http://dslyecxi.com/armattp.html
Edit Update for OP http://www.resistanceandliberation.com/ Has released its alpha 3 build today 12/22/2008
CoD4 is an stunning game to watch but playing it online on a pub server got old fast as the speed and spawn of the game were way too rapid and never seemed to allow any sort of real teamwork. I have played it on hardcore with friends on a private server and it was lots of fun for a while. Eventually it still left me feeling like it was designed for run-n-gun, non-stop action with no real co-operative considerations. I will definitely check out this mod. Thanks for the post.
For anyone interested in learning more about ArmA check out this site:
http://dslyecxi.com/armattp.html
Edit Update for OP http://www.resistanceandliberation.com/ Has released its alpha 3 build today 12/22/2008
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Yes, new version of RnL with the MGs, two new maps and bug fixes.
Still i consider the game in alpha status, they need much more work to be considered a full experience.
The last two weeks i have entered hard in the ArmA community. I have played the expansion (it does have a decent campaign, unlike the original game), i have installed a collection of around 30 addons, i have played multi both with friends and in public servers, and i am playing right now the FDF mod.
I can say that now ArmA is properly patched, and with a decent gaming machine and some mods the game is great.
Still i consider the game in alpha status, they need much more work to be considered a full experience.
The last two weeks i have entered hard in the ArmA community. I have played the expansion (it does have a decent campaign, unlike the original game), i have installed a collection of around 30 addons, i have played multi both with friends and in public servers, and i am playing right now the FDF mod.
I can say that now ArmA is properly patched, and with a decent gaming machine and some mods the game is great.
Don't frickin bother me, I'm playing a $50 Oblivion Mod called "Fallout 3" something or other. Hell, there's even a cat on there calling himself Betto or something like that on the Nexus community always talking about making 'combat realism' mods for it! 
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2160
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2160