CliffyB Talks Game Development
- Thread starter hal
- Start date
-
Two Factor Authentication is now available on BeyondUnreal Forums. To configure it, visit your Profile and look for the "Two Step Verification" option on the left side. We can send codes via email (may be slower) or you can set up any TOTP Authenticator app on your phone (Authy, Google Authenticator, etc) to deliver codes. It is highly recommended that you configure this to keep your account safe.
Why would you have to be on a side? I don't know anyone that is 100% happy with the game. I love the gameplay part of it, but the UI is horrid. The lack of features that most PC gamers pretty much expect in any PC game is scary, and the fact that a Linux dedicated server is unheard of for whatever reason is a what the ****? I love the gameplay of UT3, but the rushed feel of other parts of the game puts me in an irritated mood.
I think the statement CliffyB made was really stupid. Judging from the past.. If he didn't know people were going to jump on his statement and rip it apart word for word, than he'll never have a clue. That pretty much goes for all the folks at Epic.
I am having a hard time believing the numbers are the same even with the PS3 ... I just took a long hard look at the U.S. sales data via VGChartz and since it as come out UT3 has not made the top 50 video games sold but once ... the first week. Since January it has not been able to sell even 15K copies in a week ... wow. The 360 version should have definitely come first ... it would have done much better even with no keyboard and mouse or mod support ... Xbox 360 gamers will play any good cool shooter ... we don't need keyboards.
Last edited:
A lot of us have put in more than $60 for the CE. You need to factor in time watching tutorials, playing the game, building stuff in editors, testing content, adding new content/mutators/maps/etc., interacting with other modders, joining and contributing to mod teams, answering questions, and so on. Why do you think I'm still so upset? If it were a simple as $60 I'd move on. There's money and time invested here and nobody likes feeling like that was all for nothing whether they're playing or modding.
This avatar will be in use until I get some sort of apology from Jeff Morris and/or Epic Games for labeling a community mapper and contributor (me) "some random troll" without notice. A friendly note or warning goes a long way. Just out of the blue kicking someone out for no obvious reason is not acceptable.
I would disagree with that. It's more attributed to the entire game being in an finished state rather than a beta version. Epic has a proven track record with UT3 of releasing things that were in beta form. We have a beta demo, a game which is more like a beta game without the word beta in front of it, cooking tools which were a beta on a friday and turned final on a monday, and so on. When people sit down and connect the dots it's blatantly obvious the entire product is in a beta state and received little to no finishing polish.
Last edited:
That avatar isn't going to exactly get you an apology from Jeff or any Epic employee exactly since most of them do browse here and might think of something as blatant as that as incredibly stupid. Also the forum moderators aren't exactly always the development party. If anything happened to you there you had it coming one way or another or it may have been a mistake.
About UT being more then 60 for CE. I only paid 60 for my collectors edition because normal was 49.99 and collectors was 59.00 plus tax. If UTIII feels like a rushed beta on your end then you might be alone on that end because I think its fine. There may be one of 2 things wrong and the UI isn't the best but the game is far from its beta state in terms of how it runs on my computer and the fact it runs more stable then most of my other games which ill use HL2 as an example because it likes to suddenly crash to desktop and sometimes not even load mods correctly and still requires a restart to change resolutions without hud errors.
Well unfortunatly that can happen with investments, they can go sour. I dont think all that time is wasted though, you can still be a part of all that Im sure but your current attitude isnt helping matters. Then again its entirely up to you if you want to or not, judging by what you've been saying you might be happier modding crysis. Its a shame though as I think UT3 can use modders, not because its short but because its got alot of potential.
The way I see it is modding is not just about the game itself, I didnt enjoy UT2004 as much as I did UC2 or UT3 but I still modded for it. Sure UT2004 might have had a more established community but there was alittle bit of an iffy period there between UT2003/04 where people were trying to get their gear ported over.
Im just thinking you are holding out some hope though if you are still here conversing, yeah some harms been done by either side perhaps but Im not gonna sit here and say whos right. All I know is that no matter what happens you can mod and be a modder, there are skills which will transfer over to other engines if thats what you decide to do. Its up to you man!
They've sold out big time. The reason UT3 tanked is even with it's decent gameplay it was obvious to everyone it was primarily intended for consoles.
My relationship with Epic (ten years) is now officially dead.
Oh and UE3 is a terrible engine full of quirks. All other unreal engines have been like brothers to me, I loved 'em all.. but damn near every game made with UE3 has had terrible problems (on PC) from poor widescreen, crap controls, lack of AA due to deferred shading etc (the shading I may add which still doesn't look anything special compared to more modern engines).
This is what happens when a company gets big, it's been in the stars for the past decade and PC players/mappers/supporters help put them there so we only have ourselves to "blame". Next stop is their exit strategy, give it 5 years and Cliffy B wont' even be in the games industry he'll be living on his private island sunbathing with hundreds of women while someone else who still has the 'hunger' has to come in and start over again on the PC/Tech/Engine race.
Fair play to them in that respect, they've been a big success but why they have to word their PR like PC players are idiots or not worthy is beyond me.
My relationship with Epic (ten years) is now officially dead.
Oh and UE3 is a terrible engine full of quirks. All other unreal engines have been like brothers to me, I loved 'em all.. but damn near every game made with UE3 has had terrible problems (on PC) from poor widescreen, crap controls, lack of AA due to deferred shading etc (the shading I may add which still doesn't look anything special compared to more modern engines).This is what happens when a company gets big, it's been in the stars for the past decade and PC players/mappers/supporters help put them there so we only have ourselves to "blame". Next stop is their exit strategy, give it 5 years and Cliffy B wont' even be in the games industry he'll be living on his private island sunbathing with hundreds of women while someone else who still has the 'hunger' has to come in and start over again on the PC/Tech/Engine race.
Fair play to them in that respect, they've been a big success but why they have to word their PR like PC players are idiots or not worthy is beyond me.
Last edited:
He is very far from alone, infact i'd say at just a glance, it looks to me that, despite how we love to bicker and argue in this community about every little thing, and what is broken and what is not broken, and why, this is the one thing everyone seems to universally agree on, the game was released too early.
Only a very small number of people seem to disagree with that sentiment, and i have a sneaking suspicion from their post history that they are the kind of people who would still call UT3 "The best game ever made!" even if they had opened their copy, only to find a post-it inside the case with the words "This is UT3, enjoy it you rubes!", and no DVD.
Actually now you mention it the packaging is rather good, the tin is solid and both the manual and artbook are rather kewl, I like how I can slide the cover off to reveal a nice black UT3 logo. The best game ever made award though goes to ummz...
Tetris? Chess, monopoly... I know, mouse trap
Tetris? Chess, monopoly... I know, mouse trap
Same difference, calling it released "too early", "before it was done" or "in Beta stage" are really just different ways of saying exactly the same thing.
Damn, so many bleeding hearts and melodramatic posts. It's kind of funny.
The game is bugged, the player count is low, get over it. The people that still do play have the opportunity to create an even tighter-knit core community over the game, as opposed to the sprawling and very seperative fanbase that was in the previous games. Rather than constantly bitching, don't you think you could either mod UT3 to make it better, or rally around each other and try to get back into enjoying the game?
Or would people rather make super-epic (no pun intended) posts about how Epic's eyes are not looking Earthward to their loyal followers who have supported them blah blah blah. After a point you get tired of reading posts where people apply the same importance to UT3 being released early as they would hopefully apply to someone like Ghandi dying.
The game is bugged, the player count is low, get over it. The people that still do play have the opportunity to create an even tighter-knit core community over the game, as opposed to the sprawling and very seperative fanbase that was in the previous games. Rather than constantly bitching, don't you think you could either mod UT3 to make it better, or rally around each other and try to get back into enjoying the game?
Or would people rather make super-epic (no pun intended) posts about how Epic's eyes are not looking Earthward to their loyal followers who have supported them blah blah blah. After a point you get tired of reading posts where people apply the same importance to UT3 being released early as they would hopefully apply to someone like Ghandi dying.
If it wasn't blatant, then it'd be easy to ignore and let drift off into the dozens of archive pages that inhabit each forum. Did I do some things wrong? Yeah, I've been a bit overly negative. Was what they did wrong? Yeah since they completely disregarded any contributions that I was making and planning to make. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Wait wait...You missed my point. I'm talking about how there's much more invested than just money. There's time, effort, creativity, and more. I'm not hurting for money so if this was as simple as a monetary issue, then I'd be long gone by now. As for the finished vs. beta stuff, certain aspects of UT3 are spot on despite the number of problems. What I was trying to bring to light is how I observed beta and 1.0/final being used interchangeably with little to no changes between the beta and the final. This was most blatantly obvious with the PS3 tools if you were on the mailing lists.
Yeah, I can agree with all that. Sometimes investments don't work out. Crysis isn't perfect either, but I don't have the hostility towards the developers since they're actually answering concerns, have more interactive forum staff, run promotions to encourage competition, and don't shoot their mouths off. When it comes to UT2004, I was abysmal at that game. I did well in UT99, but 2004 I just couldn't be all that productive while playing. However, I loved working with the editor. Most of my attention was focused on Unreal 2's XMP though since I was actually quite skilled with that game. I'm really only in the UT series for the modding aspects.
Ironically, the only two major things I did with the UT2004 editor was an island with a volcano VCTF map, and an island-based NFS3-like unwheel map that was abandoned. It's a wonder I wasn't making things for Far Cry, but the idea of jumping to the Cry Engine only occurred to me after getting banned from Epic's forums.
Thank you. I particularly liked this paragraph. You are right on target. I've really come to enjoy the community and creative talent that have formed around previous UT games. Using the same tools as talented people like Hourences use brings a level of friendly competition and aspirations for success that override my lack of ability to be competitive in game matches. I'm still here because I haven't found Crysis' equivalent to BU and NaliCity nor have I found the big names to compete against for those jaw-dropping maps that pop up on every server. All I accomplished on UT3 was a warmup map since I hadn't made a map in 2 years. I am holding out for fixes to the problems I've stated and improved community relations from Epic. I want to create stuff, participate, and be positive, but it's very hard to do that with so many glaring problems, misrepresentations, and a negative scuffle with one of Epic's own employees. You can't just flip a switch and make that stuff go away.
Last edited:
It's sad to see leave but I can understand where you come from in terms of the inconvenience of being banned on Epic forums out of random. I really do hope you find yourself at home again if you find another group to do content for and are able to get better respect for who you are and what you do elsewhere. I tend to shoot off at the mouth at times so I'm sorry for seeing like a biter but I really do hope you get success elsewhere.
Yeah that is understandable, really though Epic did release UT3 and the editor on PC so there is only so much that is in their hands now. Im sure they are waiting to see what modders can do with their engine just as much as we are. Im sure there will be continued support for some time with this game though and I do believe we can make our own lives easier by helping Epic help us, thats kinda the way I see it.
I can look past some of the stuff myself but see business is a different ball game, what I think of a person personally doesnt have any weight on how I would treat them in a business situation. Im just trying to make sense of it all myself but whatever Epic decide to do, thats also up to them. I know Im just gonna keep on doing as I have been, Ive got the tools I need to make mods for UT3 and Im appreciative of that, see I guess while theres problems (as theres bound to be) I can look past that as well.
Its not like Im sitting here saying everything is perfect because its not but if you are having problems there are channels to go through to get things looked at, see openly on forums people tend to pick their wording very carefully. As these threads of late have shown, things can just get blown way up and up till we are all walking around on the scorched remains of posts.
I can look past some of the stuff myself but see business is a different ball game, what I think of a person personally doesnt have any weight on how I would treat them in a business situation. Im just trying to make sense of it all myself but whatever Epic decide to do, thats also up to them. I know Im just gonna keep on doing as I have been, Ive got the tools I need to make mods for UT3 and Im appreciative of that, see I guess while theres problems (as theres bound to be) I can look past that as well.
Its not like Im sitting here saying everything is perfect because its not but if you are having problems there are channels to go through to get things looked at, see openly on forums people tend to pick their wording very carefully. As these threads of late have shown, things can just get blown way up and up till we are all walking around on the scorched remains of posts.
WHAT?
UT3 is far from in a "beta state" but that doesn't mean it doesn't have issues. Would you consider Windows in a constant "beta state" or even every other software program you use? If there weren't issues, you'd have no reason to ever upgrade them, right?
TheIronKnuckle
What the hell is this "ballin" thing?
Cliffy B pulled a retard there. Consoles ARE where it's at these days though.
OT: What you get kicked for BigDragon? You had some pretty good opinions over at the epic forums, what exactly was it that made them ban you?
OT: What you get kicked for BigDragon? You had some pretty good opinions over at the epic forums, what exactly was it that made them ban you?
WHAT?
UT3 is far from in a "beta state" but that doesn't mean it doesn't have issues. Would you consider Windows in a constant "beta state" or even every other software program you use? If there weren't issues, you'd have no reason to ever upgrade them, right?
Now you are just arguing semantics for the sake of argument
As for Windows, no i would obviously not call it a Beta, that is much too kind a word for such a horrible piece of software, lately i've been partial to "you misserable ****!", but really, just about any combination of the four letter expletives have been popular nicknames i have attributed to that OS over the years.
But what can you do? atleast it's not a Mac