CliffyB Talks Game Development

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ambershee

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Some rough figures:

Number of released CryEngine 2 games = 1.
Number of released Unreal Engine 3 games = 17.

Number of CryEngine 2 games announced to be in development = 7.
Number of Unreal Engine 3 games announced to be in development = 96.
 
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Guyver1

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They do :). Digital distribution does address a lot of inventory costs, but few are willing to go solely e-distribution with no retail presence. Even Valve discourages this approach.

And FWIW all UT3 SKUs totaled has outsold UT2004 by a fairly large margin worldwide. It's not an apples to apples comparison since UT2004 didn't have a console version, but considering half the SKUs haven't shipped yet (PS3 Euro/360), there's the definitely possibility it will be the best selling UT title in the franchise’s history.

nevermind the fact that after a week of playing said game most people are uninstalling it, or simply not bothering with it and playing something else.

But hey, as long as your sales figures get you that new swimming pool/V8 muscle car its all good yeah.

sad fact is, you cant return a game once opened and get a refund. If you could i'd like to see your 'most returned game in the Unreal Franchise history' figures..........
:(
 

Sir_Brizz

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In what regard?

I'm interested to hear peoples views on the merits (or not) of EPIC vs CRYTEK.
In addition to ambershee's post, Crytek's games run well on a smaller percentage of machines than Unreal 1 did and they have pretty terrible gameplay. Also, Far Cry and Crysis are more alike than UT and UT3.
 

EXE-973

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In addition to ambershee's post, Crytek's games run well on a smaller percentage of machines than Unreal 1 did and they have pretty terrible gameplay. Also, Far Cry and Crysis are more alike than UT and UT3.

Yet Crytek's games are selling pretty damn well, wonder why that could be? People like the gameplay, and the graphics. I'm seeing that storylined games are doing well lately. Perhaps UT3's issue is the style of gameplay isn't as popular right now.

Let's face it, Crytek's engine is very good, yet the licensing is low. But much of this may be due to Epics reputation and customer service. Not to mention Epic is not the new kid on the block comparatively.
I find it funny, Brizz is as quick to point out his dislike for Crytek as many are to dis Epic.
 

ambershee

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It's more to do with CryEngine 2's super-expensive licensing, but you didn't hear that from me :p

Crysis is popular because the only games that are popular these days are usually generic bullet spraying semi-realistic shooters.

Just look at Call of Duty 4.
 

Sir_Brizz

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Yet Crytek's games are selling pretty damn well, wonder why that could be? People like the gameplay, and the graphics. I'm seeing that storylined games are doing well lately. Perhaps UT3's issue is the style of gameplay isn't as popular right now.
Are they? I haven't noticed, other than them trying to tell me they've sold very well. I simply don't find that Crysis looks as amazing as everyone else does. Yes the distance renderer is great and the underwater effect is cool, but other than that it looks largely the same as other games this generation (and runs worse).

Regardless, I'm sure that UT3's style of gameplay is more out of style these days, for sure.
Let's face it, Crytek's engine is very good, yet the licensing is low. But much of this may be due to Epics reputation and customer service. Not to mention Epic is not the new kid on the block comparatively.
I find it funny, Brizz is as quick to point out his dislike for Crytek as many are to dis Epic.
I like Crytek just fine, but they get far more hype for their games than they deserve (and lets face it, hype moves as many units as making a good game does) (and don't bring up CoD4 since that is an AWESOME game that had tons of hype, so of course it outsold other games).
 

N1ghtmare

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Yet Crytek's games are selling pretty damn well, wonder why that could be? People like the gameplay, and the graphics. I'm seeing that storylined games are doing well lately. Perhaps UT3's issue is the style of gameplay isn't as popular right now.

Lets see how well UE3 games are selling!

Bioshock, Mass Effect, Gears, all have sold a lot of Units.
 
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EXE-973

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But how many of those units are console based. Crytec's new engine is pretty unproven console wise and as such it hurts the licensing issue. Sure hype sells lots, but it still sells. And frankly, Crysis does look good. Let me explain why. More than ANY other game, Crysis captures nature well. Nature is a hell of a lot harder to develop. Also, Crysis does larger playable landscapes than "MANY" other games while maintaining it's excellent looks. It's not all about the graphics.
Wasn't about to bring up COD4, but since you did, some would say that that game was all hype... but that is extremely tasted based and as such the arguments are absolutely fruitless
 
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Jordan L

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Another reason I've read why UE3 engine gets licensed alot more than Crytek 2 is because its much more user friendly. True or not, don't know myself.
 

BigDragon

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But how many of those units are console based. Crytec's new engine is pretty unproven console wise and as such it hurts the licensing issue. Sure hype sells lots, but it still sells. And frankly, Crysis does look good. Let me explain why. More than ANY other game, Crysis captures nature well. Nature is a hell of a lot harder to develop. Also, Crysis does larger playable landscapes than "MANY" other games while maintaining it's excellent looks. It's not all about the graphics.
Wasn't about to bring up COD4, but since you did, some would say that that game was all hype... but that is extremely tasted based and as such the arguments are absolutely fruitless
Crytek's engine is hurt by it's lack of being a proven cross-platform product (that's all the rage these days), high system requirements, high licensing costs, and it's lack of diversity of application (island shooters). My experiences with it have shown me that their engine and tool set is more refined and powerful than UE3's is, at least on the modding side. Most of the documentation is also public. When developers start making things in addition to shooters in nature, then I think you'll start seeing more interest. It currently suffers from UE3's old perception that it was for shooters only. PC and console hardware is also going to have to make a leap forward to convince developers/publishers to leverage the power of Crytek's engine instead of UE3. There are some major hurdles to overcome. Crytek also doesn't have a flagship game yet like Gears was for UE3. Crysis is getting there, but there's a big difference between 1 million and 4.5 million.

EDIT: I'm still waiting on some sort of response to what I said earlier. I would hope that it's not "ignored".
 
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EXE-973

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There are some major hurdles to overcome. Crytek also doesn't have a flagship game yet like Gears was for UE3. Crysis is getting there, but there's a big difference between 1 million and 4.5 million.

Sure,but there is a big difference between X-Box 360 exclusive release with PC a year later and a PC only release. For a PC only game that had high system requirement Crysis sold damn well. Even outselling some so called better games with lower system requirements.
 
Lies! Nature is procedurally generated.

WOW. The WHOLE nature? That would be pretty neat if true.
Foliage yes, some smaller rocks yes.
But even so, you can procedurally generated whatever you want and it might NOT look natural.
Nature that looks natural is indeed much harder to develop. Doesn't matter which engine you use.
 
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EXE-973

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Call of Duty 4? Runs better and looks great and certainly outsold it.
And you missed the word "some" it seems. I'm pretty sure I didn't type "all". Everyone always has an example that kills a statement hense I was not foolish enough to make the broad statement you have implied.
 

Aegeri

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I'd like to point out, just for arguments sake, that I REALLY tried to like UT3. I tried, I really did. I put up with the green pea soup that it sticks your mouse into, the complete lack of basic options any decent PC FPS has provided since the original ****ing unreal, the poor gameplay (being in a pea soup doesn't help), the poor maps relying on uninteresting gimmicks (like having a God damned tank in a DM map) rather than great item placement and flow: and so much else.

I made a big effort to like this game. I stayed away from all the forums (including here) and tried not to listen to any 'whinging' or whatever people want to call it. But I can't escape the basic fact the game just sucks horribly.

I loved Unreal, for all its flaws with the original multiplayer, it was still a fantastic game. I played UT99 CTF obsessively for almost 4 years I thought it was that fun. I LIKED UT2k3, but UT2k4 was a massive step up in every regard for me and I loved that almost as much as the original UT99.

But UT3 just sucks. I can't put it any other way. I could go into detail, saying what I hate about the stupid gimmick maps, poor flow of many others, the lack of modes I always liked to play (Like DDOM), the lack of options and everything else. But there isn't any reason to bother, all of the many problems in this game can be summed up by its commercial failure on the PC [where the franchise is supposed to have its strongest support].

If Epic had made a good sequel to UT99 and UT2k4, it would not have failed this drastically. That it has failed demonstrates enough that it's a poor game.
 

ambershee

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WOW. The WHOLE nature? That would be pretty neat if true.
Foliage yes, some smaller rocks yes.
But even so, you can procedurally generated whatever you want and it might NOT look natural.
Nature that looks natural is indeed much harder to develop. Doesn't matter which engine you use.

Foliage, Fungi, Rocks, Terrain, all can be generated easily with suitable algorithms. After you've done that, what's left? No content required - just left the code do the talking.

Ok, so the algorithms are pretty hefty in themselves, but these days tools are on hand to do the job for you.