UT2k3 failure was not due to poor maps

TWD · Aug 22, 2003

Many people argue that the reason ut2k3 did not do as well as anticipated was due to lack of good maps.

I recently played a game called quake 3. As you might know quake3 was about as popular if not more popular than ut1 back in it's day. I played quake 3 and found the maps to be absolutely terrible. Yet this game still did well. Because of this I argue that ut2k3 did not fail due to poor maps.

spineblaZe · Aug 22, 2003

/me kills TWD with a well placed rail-gun shot.

SugarBear · Aug 22, 2003

they put the lenses of my glasses in backwards so my aim is all off.

thewalkingman · Aug 22, 2003

Currently
2773 servers, 4738 players Quake 3: Arena
2063 servers, 4299 players Unreal Tournament 2003 *

*gamespy's stats counts UT2k3 bots as players

TWD · Aug 22, 2003

bah it's friday, nobody plays 2k3 on friday. There was tons of people on last night though.

NeoNite · Aug 22, 2003

good q3 maps:

q3dm1
q3dm2
q3dm6
q3dm7
q3dm11 or 12 (deva station yeah I like it)
q3dm17
q3tourney2
q3tourney3

So they're not all that bad.. and b-sides q3 has it's share of excellent/good custom maps...

Sir_Brizz · Aug 22, 2003

UT2k3 has that many and more decent to good maps.

Is there a notice about gamespy's stats counting bots? Because I got a nice tool called UBuLo (kinda like ASE) and it DOESN'T count bots...it reported stats similar to those.

thewalkingman · Aug 22, 2003

UBuLo doesnt count the bots yes until you get into the game and then the bots are present..

I want a server filter that shows the true count of players.

Swift Viper · Aug 22, 2003

NeoNite said:
good q3 maps:

q3dm1
q3dm2
q3dm6
q3dm7
q3dm11 or 12 (deva station yeah I like it)
q3dm17
q3tourney2
q3tourney3

So they're not all that bad.. and b-sides q3 has it's share of excellent/good custom maps...

Is that how all the maps are named in Quake 3 Arena

? Maybe it would have easier for the makers to give the levels actually names. I only played the demo and it was good. Anyway, there seemed to have been no real better game in the end. I did look on Google and more pages said UT was better, but I only went to a few pages. I was never around in the days of "UT vs Q3A". People said UT2k3 had some "quake-like" stuff in it, what are they exactly talking about?

Edit: Then again, I did not like most of the maps that came with the game and because I had no way of getting online the first few weeks of having UT2k3, I got board playing the normal maps and mutators (plus unpatched) till I got back online.

Sir_Brizz · Aug 22, 2003

i think mostly the pace of the game. the rockets do alot of damage...overall it felt alot more quakey at the beginning. but now after playing for so long, it's not really quakey at all...

Rev.Whoopass · Aug 22, 2003

quake 3 had a huge following from q1,and q2 players.Even though some of the maps sucked,the game came out with more maps than 2k3 did.

hal · Aug 22, 2003

Quake 3 maps... absolutely terrible?

Thematically unimaginative maybe, but the gameplay is spot-on in most of them.

TWD · Aug 23, 2003

Most quake maps have the good localized gameplay for tactics. However their layout is complete crap. There's no though put into a lot of the maps. It's just corridor room.

Yeah quake has a lot of good maps, but ut2k3 has a lot of good maps too, and there's custom maps. I repute the idea that ut2k3's failure lies within maps. People flat out can't run it or don't like something about the gameplay. It has absolutely nothing to do with maps.

I also don't agree with the idea that ut2k3 is harder to get into due to skill. Starcraft is extreemly hard to learn to play a 2on2 lt game, and yet starcraft is one of the most popular games of all time. I found bf1942 hard to play and not get killed quickly, yet this game is doing phenominally.

I have yet to see something that I can really agree with as to why ut2k3 didn't do well.

OshadowO · Aug 23, 2003

heres why....when we played ut2k3 maps we were spoiled by UT maps. when they got Q3...well I have no clue how Q2 maps were since I only ever played Quake 1 and 3.

Swedix · Aug 23, 2003

OshadowO said:
heres why....when we played ut2k3 maps we were spoiled by UT maps. when they got Q3...well I have no clue how Q2 maps were since I only ever played Quake 1 and 3.

Holy moses, OshadowO!!!!!

Where have you been the last years? Haven't seen you for a long time. Not even on ICQ.

Anyway, nice to see you again and I hope you're here to stay :rockon:

gramps · Aug 23, 2003

TWD said:
It has absolutely nothing to do with maps.

Selerox · Aug 23, 2003

Environments are key...

Swift Viper said:
Is that how all the maps are named in Quake 3 Arena ? Maybe it would have easier for the makers to give the levels actually names.

All the maps have names as well. Q3DM17 is "The Longest Yard" for example.

As for maps, I think most players will agree that the UT2003 maps were shocking. Virtually everyone one of them is a textbook case of style over substance. The look great, but very few of them are worth playing.

Antalus, Asbestos, Grendel, Compressed, Phobos and Osiris2 are about the only decent deathmatch maps in the game, and even then they have problems. Theres not a single map I'd put in a top 10 (or even top 20) list of all time top FPS maps.

Epic have already said that the maps in UT2003 were designed with theme and graphics first, and the gameplay was built around that. Which goes a long way to explaining why the maps look great but play badly. Maps have everything to do with gameplay. Poor games will exagerate any flaws in the gameplay mechanics.

Hopefully, Epic/DE are working on making maps with gameplay as the top priority. As for Q3, most of the most had fantasic gameplay, and suited Q3's style of play perfectly. So did UT99's maps, UT2003's maps just aren't good enough.

VernerVK · Aug 23, 2003

I originally thought UT2K3 was the same game as UT. I discovered that that was not the case, which was exactly why I only recently got it. But I can say that UT2K3 has cooler maps than old school UT. (I'll probably get fragged for saying that)

Radiosity · Aug 23, 2003

VernerVK said:
(I'll probably get fragged for saying that)

Nah, this isn't the INA forum

Personally I like most of the stock maps, but they definitely should have had loads less eye candy and crap to get stuck on.

Lynxx · Aug 23, 2003

IMO Compressed is absolutely teh siht. and the more players that are stuffed in there the more fun it gets.

UT2k3 failure was not due to poor maps

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