XMP great balance, BUT...

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Demo_Boy

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Jan 1, 2004
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The tech 2x hack ability is so good that it tips the game towards tech.

I'd say all the classes should hack at the same speed, halfway between the tech speed and the gunner speed.

That way there's no need to choose tech just to break a well guarded spawn.

The classes are pretty even otherwise.
 

[V3]Folo

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Feb 14, 2004
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Demo_Boy said:
That way there's no need to choose tech just to break a well guarded spawn.

That's...the point. I use to play tech EXCLUSIVELY because of their high hack rate. Now, I play all 3 classes evenly, because I always find myself wanting someone elses weaponry. (or speed :| (darn rangers move so fast :p ))
 
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-=McBean=-

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Mar 16, 2004
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I think techs should have the advantage, without it there wouldnt be any point in them exisiting apart from the SG's and even then they aren't very effective against a rocket launcher ;)
 

Dead_Metal

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Feb 13, 2004
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Hi vehicle fux0rer of doom, mines - trip mines, and rocket launcher. not to mention incendiary nades- plus his anti personel guns such as the flame thrower, flash nades, incendiary again and rockent launcer again, oh and of course those mines that ppl love to put on the node X_X.

I likes ranger now :} - he is so fun and it takes aim to kill with the widowmaker, especially in close combat :p - PS I'm kinda in [xF] now :p sorry, I know yall wanted me (enter many laughs to follow - after I leave of course)
 

Demo_Boy

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Jan 1, 2004
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Tech has crappy weapons? LOL

\/\/0RF said:
Tech needs hack speed to make up for his subpar weaponry.

MG chews rangers and gunners at good range.

Shotty one shot kills, plus magic shotty sniping technique.

Gas.

Massive turret farms. Load em up and move out.

Good movement speed.

and his other goodies are at least halfway decent too.

You really think tech weaponry is weaker overall than the other classes????!?!??!?!?!

Gunner has awesome rockets, mines and infinite ammo. He's not crap, but the versatility of the tech aresenal is wider.
 
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[DF]phalanx

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hackin techs are rocket launcher fodder ;)
i dont care about techs that much they may be fast but my juggernaught cannon kinda stops em :p

they should get rid of the gas grenades
1 blast radius is rediculous
2 ppl spam it and it lags everyone
3 does too much damage
 

Brainiacus

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Feb 17, 2004
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Demo_Boy said:
MG chews rangers and gunners at good range.

Shotty one shot kills, plus magic shotty sniping technique.

Gas.

Massive turret farms.

Good movement speed.

and his other goodies are at least halfway decent too.

You really think tech weaponry is weaker overall than the other classes????!?!??!?!?!

Gunner has awesome rockets, mines and infinite ammo. He's not crap, but the versatility of the tech aresenal is wider.

MG - Against rangers at short to medium range, surely. At long range, they'll have the advantage. Against gunners?!!?! You have got to be kidding me. That's like trying to empty the average lake with a plastic bucket of water.

SG - Yup, up close with alternate anything can be dropped in one shot. Still, a sniper can drop you at very long range with nearly one shot, and two shots aren't that hard to hit if the enemy wasn't paying attention. Trying to sneak up on the enemy requires a whole lot less attention-paying on his part, and even when close still requires a decent aim to land the hit. Only primary fire shotgun hits instantly, but the flamey shotgun travels for a bit, so the tech needs to anticipate where the enemy will be in a split second. Not always as easy. Magic sniping? Only primary shotgun carries far, and it fires exactly 17 pellets. If you look at the spread, and realise that this spread is random, you will note that the sniping technique is only viable against rangers or people at really low health.

Gas - Agreed. Really powerful. But only 6 shots, and you need at least half of those to down the average noob unless you can headshot people out of the air with nades. Elite players won't even go down after 6 nades, unless they're cornered/injured. The limited ammunition balances gas grenades. The biggest problem here is noobs who die often and therefore get frequent refills of the nades, and use them as their only weapon (before they die once again).

Massive turret farms - Hurts the own team as much as the enemy team, if not more. I've lost many games because my node was offline even though my team had both arties, only to have some people on my team leave and some elite people join on the other team, and lose a long and painful battle. The energy these farms drain is huge, and only a few turrets which are skillfully placed can be energy efficient and effective. That, however, requires a very strategically gifted technician, and you don't often encounter those on publics. Still, if you face turret farms and the enemy has enough power to sustain them, you (or your team) is doing something horribly wrong. Hack those generators!

Good movement speed - Ranger is quicker, gunner is slower. Raptor owns all. What more is there to say?

Other goodies - Yes, don't forget the tech's laser fences. They have got to be the most powerful tool in the game. Or those fantastic shield packs after you got revived, then you can have 1 health and 300 shields!

Tech weaponry weaker - Overall? I'm not sure. I'd almost say the tech has the perfect equipment for a player like me. Ironically enough you forgot to mention EMP grenades, which I would pick as a favorite out of all six grenades. Take out a small cluster of turrets in one shot, and packs a real punch against vehicles too.
 
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Demo_Boy

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Jan 1, 2004
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Brainiacus said:
a sniper can drop you at very long range with nearly one shot,

Massive turret farms - Hurts the own team as much as the enemy team, if not more. I've lost many games because my node was offline even though my team had both arties


1. nearly one shot is like saying nearly pregnant. If the enemy is paying attention, two shots without the ranger giving up terrain (backing up) is very very tough.

2. Turrets placed in the field are cleared by enemies pretty quickly due to score. Massive turret farms at the node usually pays for itself if its an 8 v 8. If less than 8v8 then the drain comes into play. The technique I was referring to was loading up on turrets and dropping them as you leave the enemy node to slow down chasers. Not a problem for gunners -- but they can't keep up with a tech anyway.

I still think the Ranger is most disadvantaged by the tech speed hack time.
 

-=McBean=-

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All tech stuff can be easily taken out by a ranger if he is outside of their range and a gunner should be able to take pretty much all of them out if he gets the shot in properly...

I don't really believe techs are very gifted in the weapons department, that's why they need their hack advantage. If all classes had the same hack speed then it would just make the techs more weaker than they already are :(
 
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I'd of thought the name would of given away the fact that technicians are designed for hacking and laying automated defenses.

There's no point in balancing the game so that Rangers and Gunners could hack fast, it would make a large amount of the techs usefulness redundant. Rangers aren't designed for hacking, nor are Gunners. If you want to hack, don't play as a Ranger or a Gunner. A lot of your threads seem to imply you just want your personal preferred class to be able to do everything the other classes can.

The classes are perfectly balanced as they are.
 

Demo_Boy

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Jan 1, 2004
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Assumptions.

Tapeworm said:
I'd of thought the name would of given away the fact that technicians are designed for hacking and laying automated defenses.
There's no point in balancing the game so that Rangers and Gunners could hack fast, it would make a large amount of the techs usefulness redundant. ...
If you want to hack, don't play as a Ranger or a Gunner. A lot of your threads seem to imply you just want your personal preferred class to be able to do everything the other classes can.

Where to begin:
1. tech explains the turrets and forcefields. I think they got a fast hack because of the name assignment, not because of an innate aesthetic in the hack time differences between the classes. If there was supposed to be a three way aesthetic for hacking (as there is for the other class elements) there would be three hack time differences, one for each class. But there are only two. Techs fast, gunners and rangers equally slow. Moreover the ranger needs the hack speed the most because he is at the highest risk if enemies spawn while he's hacking the deploy -- his only benefit is range, which he gives up during a hack attempt.

Techs are so useful they could hack the slowest and they'd still be a lynchpin of the game. Turrets, forcewalls, mg vs ranger, gas -- those are important abilities! So I disagree that it would make a LARGE part of techs redundant.

The main issue is if I _need_ to hack, I can't use anything BUT a tech. He's the only way you can clear a contested deploy. Maybe if you could destroy convertible deploypoints temporarily that would change things. Or if you could short circiut deploy points so they spawn at half the speed. Or if frequently used deploypoints pushed out their respawn timer. -- but no, you have to go as a tech and clear the turrets and wait for 5 gas grenades to clear out, and then hope more enemies have not respawned. If you snipe an enemy deploy point it's zero sum gain, since he just respawns and you have two less bullets out of 15.

WRT classes, I play them all, Ranger is my worst, tech is my best, gunner on D. So you are just wrong if you say my post is just class envy. I'd just like to be able to use all the classes with a more equal frequency. Variety is the spice of life.
 
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Demo_Boy said:
Where to begin:
1. tech explains the turrets and forcefields. I think they got a fast hack because of the name assignment, not because of an innate aesthetic in the hack time differences between the classes. If there was supposed to be a three way aesthetic for hacking (as there is for the other class elements) there would be three hack time differences, one for each class. But there are only two. Techs fast, gunners and rangers equally slow. Moreover the ranger needs the hack speed the most because he is at the highest risk if enemies spawn while he's hacking the deploy -- his only benefit is range, which he gives up during a hack attempt.


Rangers aren't designed for hacking. If you do use them to hack (gawd knows why) it's just asking for trouble hacking deploys, i'd stick to energy sources.


Techs are so useful they could hack the slowest and they'd still be a lynchpin of the game. Turrets, forcewalls, mg vs ranger, gas -- those are important abilities! So I disagree that it would make a LARGE part of techs redundant.


Techs are pretty much the middleground class in pretty much all aspects except hacking. Just like the Ranger has the advantage of speed and sniping which no other classes do, and the Gunner having strong amour and very powerful weapons in close range (aswell as mines and tripmines).

If you want Rangers and Gunners to have equal hacking abilities, you might aswell make Techs and Gunners as fast as Rangers and equip them sniper rifles, then give Techs and Rangers the armour and weapons of Gunners. If not there would be a great unbalance and techs would be the weakest class rather than an even middleground class.


The main issue is if I _need_ to hack, I can't use anything BUT a tech. He's the only way you can clear a contested deploy. Maybe if you could destroy convertible deploypoints temporarily that would change things. Or if you could short circiut deploy points so they spawn at half the speed. Or if frequently used deploypoints pushed out their respawn timer. -- but no, you have to go as a tech and clear the turrets and wait for 5 gas grenades to clear out, and then hope more enemies have not respawned. If you snipe an enemy deploy point it's zero sum gain, since he just respawns and you have two less bullets out of 15.


If there's a very busy enemy deploy then it's utter stupidity to attempt to regain it on your own without backup, and even stupider to try to regain it as anything except a Tech. Really this is more common sense than a lack of balance, XMP is based on teamplay not lone people being able to do everything on their own.


WRT classes, I play them all, Ranger is my worst, tech is my best, gunner on D. So you are just wrong if you say my post is just class envy. I'd just like to be able to use all the classes with a more equal frequency. Variety is the spice of life.


If they were all equal there would be no need for seperate classes at all.
 

i_am_Loki

god of mischief
Feb 21, 2004
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U guys gotta look at who created the Game.. (Techies) of course the Tech is gunna ROCK :p
 

Brainiacus

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Feb 17, 2004
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Demo_Boy, try playing on a server which has an 8 second deploy timer. Or 10 or 12 or whatever obscenely low timer you can find. The default is 24 seconds if I remember correctly. On those 8-second servers, not even a team of two technicians can hack a deploy point properly. :D
 

i_am_Loki

god of mischief
Feb 21, 2004
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what do you mean by hack a deploy point properly? all you do is hold the action button and hack it.... If a team of two technicians can't hack it then a team of 4 rangers couldn't hack it "properly".. and a team of 8 gunners to hack it "Properly" that is if you mean "properly" by speed.
 

PF Prophet

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Dec 9, 2003
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i play all classes= and u know they all have there uses

i would like to see each class have an added item of some kind they can deploy only x number per map though
i will explain that later

techs are fast hackers becouse thats there primary function

rangers are there for speed and range fighting

gunners are there for firepower and laying defences (call me the mine masta)

properly used any class can do any job

a team of rangers/gunners can take back a deploy just fine witout the tech 2+ hacking togather can get the thing back in not time

as for the deployables

gunner i think it would be koo to see a deployable gunner possition like a gattlinng gun bunker(room for 1-2 ppl behind the protective wall)
make the thing like a high powered MG maby like the altfire but no rechochet and at a higher rate with less accuracy

tech a sheld that will hold for x ammount of hp and keep everything out even gas

ranger calatrops(sp) to throw down as u run only somebody that would step on them would be hert or somebody in a car


they would have to be worked to balance on each map but they would add another level

tech thing is just an idea like the tribes sheld walls



oh and i do think tech's should beable to rep turets/vehickls/exct they are technology after all
 
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