XM8 lightweight assault rifle model in progress

[Arethusa]

That's not true. It's pure myth. Though a long barrel's returns are diminishing, you will never see a gun that actually retards bullet speed and accuracy through barrel length. Yes, a bullet out of a smoothbore gun of the same caliber, load, and barrel length will fly faster. It'll also fly very far away from where you want it to.

Anyway, if the XM8's barrel length is less than that of the SG551, it should have lower penetration and less damage. Maybe not appreciably lower, but I haven't looked at the numbers. As for recoil, I can't test it right now (uninstalled UT), but if the XM8 does have less recoil, that does need to be fixed at some point. Lower muzzle velocity does not decrease recoil. They are firing the same ammunition. For the purposes of the abstraction of the game, the only appreciable factor in recoil, at that point, is weapon weight.

 

[ecale3]

one last time for the record. The XM8 is no longer supported by duke from what he said earlier in the thread. Namely, unless its a major bug, he doesn't care. All these changes you are suggesting aren't gonna be done at any point in the discernable future IF EVER.

Besides, would you rather him pump out new and better weapons with the INF MOD team or support and old weapon not many people even use?

 

[Arethusa]

Are you suggesting that changing a handful of values is some insurmountable summit of unnecessary work?

 

[ecale3]

*sigh* he isn't working on it any more, the rest of your argument is irrelevant because he specifically said "Barring a major bug this will be the last version of the XM8."

Besides, if its as easy as you say, maybe you should do it. You seem to care more than anyone else.

 

[Hurin]

no,no i dont mind him not working on it i simply want to know what it actually should be like. Offcourse when the inf team decides and if it hopefully does to officially release dukes weapon then the neccesary adjustments would have been made.

oh and lower muzzle velocity is exactly what lower recoil is caliber has nothing to do with it.

Effectivly if you were in no gravity and firing a gun you would fly back at the speed of bullet speed X bullet mass / body mass. Muzzle velocity is the speed of the bullet when leaving the gun, that is the point the recoil is felt.

 

[ecale3]

no,no i dont mind him not working on it i simply want to know what it actually should be like. Offcourse when the inf team decides and if it hopefully does to officially release dukes weapon then the neccesary adjustments would have been made.

What?!? What gives you the idea that they will touch these weapons (duke's XM8 or the INF MOD team weapons he's coding) with a five foot pole?

 

[Dr.J]

will you guys stop bitching somewhere dukes not even gonna look. in the end, dukes got the final say, NOT you. so just shut the **** up.

 

[Bushwack]

The reason for me wanting to know this is that Bushwack says on more modern weapons the friction from the twisting of the barrel keeps the bullet from gaining speed in a longere barrel.

That is NOT what i said, you werent listening, and if your going to misquote, at least try quoting correct terminology, the 'twist' is actually called RIFLING, anyone arguing that a bullet going down a barrel isnt slowed down, even if its imperceptible, is working on physics from an alternate reality, ANY friction, creates DRAG, which over longer periods of time can not only affect speed, but also trajectory, by your flawed model of physics, all projectiles, will fly indefinitely, in a straight line, forever, as there is no drag coefficient, because people like Albert Einstien beleive different....even the AIR/ATMOSPHERE causes the round to lose energy as it travels.
we all know, or rather SHOULD know that any rifled projectile, acquires its 'spin' due to either grooves cut into the inner sides of the barrel, or "molded' rifling such as the polygonal rifling found in many of HK's newer weaponry {looks kinda like a smooth wave, twisted from end to end}. This enhances the projectiles range, stability and accuracy.

To me this seems questionable, for example why then would the squad automatic version of the XM8 not only come with a drum mag but also with a longer barrel?

ACCURACY, and possibly to dissipate HEAT, ask the RIGHT QUESTIONS.....

Which would make sense considreing XM8's lower muzzlevelocity which reduces the recoil, (the weight diffrence is tiny) what doesnt make sense is the XM8 having lower muzzle velocity, lower recoil and over all seemingly better penetration.

please, ill type it bolder, and go watch the video on the HK site, showing a guy firing the XM8, one handed, with arm extended on full autoand the fact that the weapons are vastly different in thier internal recoil management, and probably at least 20-30 years away from each other as far as developement and technology goes.

And i am still in doubt as to why the sight hasnt been changed into a red dot and as to why the sight shrinks down as you look into it.

HE SAID HE WASNT GOING TO TOUCH IT< BARRING ANY HUGE BUGS< HES DONE< FINISHED< FINITO

p.s. I am in no way trying to bash duke, or discredit the time in effort he has spent on making the XM8 i simply see room for improvement, and if it exists it should be used.

Then learn to code, model, and animate, fix it yourself, stop whipping a dead horse, and re-read the above statement.

 

[Arethusa]

That is NOT what i said, you werent listening, and if your going to misquote, at least try quoting correct terminology, the 'twist' is actually called RIFLING, anyone arguing that a bullet going down a barrel isnt slowed down, even if its imperceptible, is working on physics from an alternate reality, ANY friction, creates DRAG, which over longer periods of time can not only affect speed, but also trajectory, by Arethusa's model of physics, all projectiles, will fly indefinitely, in a straight line, forever, as there is no drag coefficient, because people like Albert Einstien beleive different....

Whoah, wait, when did I say that? In an ideal vaccuum with no outside forces, sure, an object set in motion will continue in motion unperturbed, but that obviously does not apply in any practical sense to ballistics.

 

[Bushwack]

That's not true. It's pure myth. Though a long barrel's returns are diminishing, you will never see a gun that actually retards bullet speed and accuracy through barrel length.

sorry if im mistaken, but thats the way i understood that comment. {and i edited out your name after i finished, sorry}


and to negate any further misunderstandings of anything ive said above, the SIG is traditionally rifled with grooves, the XM8 is polygonally rifled, which actually produces less drag, friction, enhances the range, and accuracy, and i daresay felt recoil...in short, the rifles, are vastly different animals, only realistically comparable in that they fire the same caliber, are used in similar tactical situations, and are similar size, other than that, not much else to compare between the two, IMHO.

 

[Arethusa]

I was referring to Hurin's Shorter Barrel = Faster Bullet statement, which I believe he (apparently wrongly) attributed to you.

 

[Hurin]

i know drags creates friction smartass.
The point is; is this friction enough to keep it from gaining speed.
you should understand that supposing you had a barrel with which would not create friction with the bullet (a physical impossibility) the bullet would gain speed, and if you made a longer barrel the bullet would gain more speed and so on. THe bullet does not instantly gain all of its speed, what happens is:
the gas realeased from the fuel burining up in the bullet pushes the bullet through da barrel the bullet will keep gaining speed till at some point the friction of the barrels rifling is equal to or greater then the momentum being imparted by the gas pushing the bullet out of the barrel.

a bullet being shot out of a barrel full of holes would be going at a much lower speed.

i simply want to know how exactly this process works.

 

[keihaswarrior]

I think it is plainly obvious that a longer barrel will increase muzzle velocity TO A POINT, then the friction from the barrel will start to decrease it.

The question is: At what point is that for the 5.56 ammo? and is the barrel length of the XM8 shorter than that point?

My guess: Yes, the XM8's barrel is shorter than the point at which barrel length will start to slow the bullet down. Therefore, it should probably have a lower velocity, lower damage, and lower penetration than that of the M16A2.

Recoil is an entirely different matter. I would have made the recoil about like the SIG's, since that is the only other carbine in INF.

Its too bad Duke does all that work, and then stops short of polishing it with some tweaks to the values.....- Tho, is Duke restricted to simply reusing ballistics/penetration/damage from existing INF weapons? or can he make is own?

 

[yurch]

The question is: At what point is that for the 5.56 ammo?

Most likely it's longer than any barrel you will ever find being produced for a 5.56 weapon.

The relationship between friction and velocity is not nessesarily linear, and there is a point where adding another few pounds of metal to the barrel isn't going to make enough difference in velocity to be worth the production costs and awkwardness of the rifle.
Edit: wording

 

[MP_Duke]

The recoil is the same for all the assault rifles (and keep in mind that the recoil you "feel" will differ also based on the size of the mesh model being used and position relative to the camera). They're probably affected a little bit by the type of ballistics. But if you think i'm gonna start measuring my screen to discern a couple of millimetres of difference you can forget about it.

As for the ballistics, no i am not restricted to using the pre-existing ballistics, but i find that the inf team made a good enough range of ballistic types for me to use. And frankly, i couldn't be bothered much if it takes 2 shots for this gun A, and 3 shots for gun B to kill someone

NB: i will update this gun (trying a different sound and with slung/chest meshes, so really there's no real change) and the M16A4 (same thing) when the INF MOD Weapons pack is ready for release.

Hurin, the INF team has nothing to do with dukeXM8 or M16A4 (nor the INF MOD team weapons). They wouldn't want to, they have more important things to do.

 

[codenet]

i wjust want to thamk duke for this awesome weapon.



im drunk, and its the 4th....hooray!

 

[Meplat]

Regarding barrel length, friction, and velocity in the 5.56 NATO, I offer this..


See Yurch's post.

Ever wonder why there are flash hiders on a lot of 5.56MM firearms?

To dissapate unused powder. Wasted potential not used to drive the projectile.

If you don't believe me, do some HARD reading, and you may find the tests done by I belive Winchester-Olin, using a 26 " barrel on a model 700 action . Optimal is supposedly in the 30" range.

(Oh, I thought I should add this. The absolute velocity limit for a nitrocellulose propellant, removing all outside influnences, is approximately 58,000 feet per second. THEORETICALLY one could drive a projectile at this speed. The fastest I've ever read of is 12,000 fps, fired in a vacuum chamber using an aluminimum alloy projectile.)

 

[(un)l33t_1]

when the new Xm8 is released, will the sounds work on my mac? So far, none of the new sounds (suppressed M16A4 included) have worked. Is there any way around the mac OS9 bug? (sounds I couldn't hear that were developed by the INF team include the AKMSU, sig 551, minimi, and p90 firing sounds, and flying helicopter sounds)

 

[Tave]

So are irons a thing of the past now? . I guess all of those Sci-Fi movies were right about how the "guns of the future" would look. I guess Star Trek phasers are the next step now. Also, it explains the infantry rifles the Storm Troopers carry in Star Wars. Yep, this proves my theory. "Everything you see in a sci-fi war movie will eventually come true". Haha.
QUOTE]

http://members.fortunecity.com/alivegun/gun640/handgun/c-x.jpg

and heres a pistol to go with the sc-fi look (found while searching for m93r auto9 pics). that site has a large amount of pistol, smg and rifle pics.

 

[[C22]-Acolyte]

That's not a real gun. It's a custom airsoft based on Masamune Shirow's odd gun designs in his manga. Probably from Man-Machine Interface or some other crap he has worked on.