Why do some people hate RA?
- Thread starter Keganator
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im fairly sure rangers dont sprint around and over the mountains/woods/where-ever-they-may-be all the live long day
WellÉ
So you've amdited that RA is handicaping and dibilitating -- most specifically the scope feature. I'm going to bring this point forward one more time and it is the most valid point in this argument.
An aspect of realism that detracts or dilbilitates from the ease of play or fun has no place in Infiltration. Warren (i.e the Project Leader) has said many, many, many times that there are certain aspect of reality that won't be put in Infiltration, simply because "they are no fun". RA does adress some aspects of realism that don't detract from gameplay nor add uneeded complexity these are changes the team would probably make anyways. But making scopes harder too use and indeed at times frustrating most certainly does go against an aspect of Infiltration that the team has envisioned since day one. That of fine tuning Realism and Fun. And remember it's the teams vision of reality not yours.
In it's current form I don't mind RA, AFA is the primary user of the mutator and if I don't want to play with RA I can sign on a different server. RA or rather the scope feature should not and I believe will not make it's way into Infiltration on a standardized basis. Again, the team said they are leaving the scope issue alone, simply on the basis that it's too REAL and not FUN.
So you've amdited that RA is handicaping and dibilitating -- most specifically the scope feature. I'm going to bring this point forward one more time and it is the most valid point in this argument.
An aspect of realism that detracts or dilbilitates from the ease of play or fun has no place in Infiltration. Warren (i.e the Project Leader) has said many, many, many times that there are certain aspect of reality that won't be put in Infiltration, simply because "they are no fun". RA does adress some aspects of realism that don't detract from gameplay nor add uneeded complexity these are changes the team would probably make anyways. But making scopes harder too use and indeed at times frustrating most certainly does go against an aspect of Infiltration that the team has envisioned since day one. That of fine tuning Realism and Fun. And remember it's the teams vision of reality not yours.
In it's current form I don't mind RA, AFA is the primary user of the mutator and if I don't want to play with RA I can sign on a different server. RA or rather the scope feature should not and I believe will not make it's way into Infiltration on a standardized basis. Again, the team said they are leaving the scope issue alone, simply on the basis that it's too REAL and not FUN.
I have to say that I've found myself in a great deal more protracted firefights in RA then I ever had in vanilla INF, especially at range. The reason is that the easy kills are gone. The use of scopes drops some because of the wobble and the inability to run with it. Those that do have scopes don't have the sensitivity advantage, so they have more missed snap shots. Many long range battles are conducted with iron sights. I mean, one guy actually dropped to prone on the other side of Funkers and crawled to a cover wall. Any other server would have found that guy dead as soon as he proned. The team communication level is way up as well, leading to wins that aren't based on reaction time, but instead on closing in on the enemy.
In short, because the encounters aren't strictly rush in your face blitz's as they often are on other servers, and death at range is reduced, the actual gunplay has often increased (although accuracy for some has decreased
.
I'm really hoping that the autohip approach will help ease players into it. It honestly isn't punishing to play under RA, just rewarding. The gameplay is different, but that doesn't mean it isn't something you can't enjoy. I wouldn't expect players to instantly enjoy it. It represents a significant departure even though the changes are subtle. But I haven't seen anyone who has stuck with it for a week decide it's the wrong way to play.
In short, because the encounters aren't strictly rush in your face blitz's as they often are on other servers, and death at range is reduced, the actual gunplay has often increased (although accuracy for some has decreased
.I'm really hoping that the autohip approach will help ease players into it. It honestly isn't punishing to play under RA, just rewarding. The gameplay is different, but that doesn't mean it isn't something you can't enjoy. I wouldn't expect players to instantly enjoy it. It represents a significant departure even though the changes are subtle. But I haven't seen anyone who has stuck with it for a week decide it's the wrong way to play.
However, I believe that this change is analagous to moving to iron sights for non-scoped weapons from crosshairs. It implements the weapons in a new way that puts the level of skill and control in the hands of the user instead of making it a point and shoot affair. INF introduced scope wobble and breathing in to make the first attempt to complicate sniping. I think this is the next natural step.
The problem is that Return to Castle Wolfenstein has a more complicated and realistic implementation of sniping than INF does at times. That has me seriously concerned.
The problem is that Return to Castle Wolfenstein has a more complicated and realistic implementation of sniping than INF does at times. That has me seriously concerned.
Re: WellÉ
To LIMIT unrealistic playing!
And as for "fun" I don't think its "fun" to be picked off from 300 yards by everyone who carries a robar in thier loadout. I don't think its "fun" to be out-shot at 100 yards because someone has a ****ing acog strapped to thier rifle. I don't think its "fun" to have someone run up to and past me the moment I pull a pin out of a grenade. I don't think its "fun" to have someone jump over my rifle in CQB.
Limitations are needed to make this game fun. That, and adding chalanges to the game. Its not surprising that most cheaters think otherwise.
You obviously want your easy robar kills. I made robar easier-to-use while prone then it normally is except for its last fourth of full zoom. In normal inf, the robar is, and was so laughably easy to use - even when I just started.
You don't want to prone - fine, thats your choice. Apparently its not "fun" either. Then you shall suffer the poor aiming. Thats the rules of this particular mod. Don't come to me about "fun" - the way I see it, the scope sensitvity is a bug. And I see you as exploiting that bug. Thats not "fun" for me - or the audience of players I made this for.
Ease of play - right. I could make Inf a whole lot "easier to play". I can start by removing walk and jog, make guns always aimed, put in auto-reloading, take out the weapon collision, give no speed or stanima penalties, make players live longer, and take out recoil effects. Perhaps then it would be "fun". Then I should just call it CS.
And for the record, I don't think the inf team ever said the scope sensitvity issue, or my fix wasn't "fun". It was left out because engine limitations - the grid effect.
Nothing to do with fun. Im sure they would do it in a heartbeat if that wasn't the problem.
Admited? Of course its a handicap! So is stanima! Thats the point!
To LIMIT unrealistic playing!
And as for "fun" I don't think its "fun" to be picked off from 300 yards by everyone who carries a robar in thier loadout. I don't think its "fun" to be out-shot at 100 yards because someone has a ****ing acog strapped to thier rifle. I don't think its "fun" to have someone run up to and past me the moment I pull a pin out of a grenade. I don't think its "fun" to have someone jump over my rifle in CQB.
Limitations are needed to make this game fun. That, and adding chalanges to the game. Its not surprising that most cheaters think otherwise.
You obviously want your easy robar kills. I made robar easier-to-use while prone then it normally is except for its last fourth of full zoom. In normal inf, the robar is, and was so laughably easy to use - even when I just started.
You don't want to prone - fine, thats your choice. Apparently its not "fun" either. Then you shall suffer the poor aiming. Thats the rules of this particular mod. Don't come to me about "fun" - the way I see it, the scope sensitvity is a bug. And I see you as exploiting that bug. Thats not "fun" for me - or the audience of players I made this for.
Ease of play - right. I could make Inf a whole lot "easier to play". I can start by removing walk and jog, make guns always aimed, put in auto-reloading, take out the weapon collision, give no speed or stanima penalties, make players live longer, and take out recoil effects. Perhaps then it would be "fun". Then I should just call it CS.
And for the record, I don't think the inf team ever said the scope sensitvity issue, or my fix wasn't "fun". It was left out because engine limitations - the grid effect.
Nothing to do with fun. Im sure they would do it in a heartbeat if that wasn't the problem.
I'm all with Yurch : Fun for me isn't about how fast i can move and react or how many i can kill in one minute. I enjoy my "wasted time" if i can use it to teamwork a little, chit chat a bit and let the tension build up. I don't mind if i don't kill anyone as long as i did interact a bit with others...
Handicap? Depend for who. They work both ways, just have to learn how to get them when they are at their weakest and and not to allow them to to it to you.
Browncow : They are too easy to shoot at? Guess what, so are you.
Handicap? Depend for who. They work both ways, just have to learn how to get them when they are at their weakest and and not to allow them to to it to you.
Browncow : They are too easy to shoot at? Guess what, so are you.
[Rant]
I play UT when I want to lay waste to everything that moves, run rampant thru a level like Ride the Dragon, with my Flak cannon blazing away, going for health when needed, always running, moving, circle straffing, never stopping for anything... no planning, no strategy, no teamwork, going for as many frags as possible... just plain old fun, PERIOD!
When I want to get SERIOUS... I load up INF, grab my team and together, systematically eliminate the enemy, with my team giving support, cover fire (sometimes in the back), flanking manuvers... what ever it takes to win. The more real, the better! I use all the realism mods including RA (oh, no hud either) and that's what INF is all about... REALISM! No running with guns blazing... no circle strafing or bunny hopping to avoid being shot. Using your head and skills to outsmart the enemy... That's what INF is all about
[Rant over]
I play UT when I want to lay waste to everything that moves, run rampant thru a level like Ride the Dragon, with my Flak cannon blazing away, going for health when needed, always running, moving, circle straffing, never stopping for anything... no planning, no strategy, no teamwork, going for as many frags as possible... just plain old fun, PERIOD!
When I want to get SERIOUS... I load up INF, grab my team and together, systematically eliminate the enemy, with my team giving support, cover fire (sometimes in the back), flanking manuvers... what ever it takes to win. The more real, the better! I use all the realism mods including RA (oh, no hud either) and that's what INF is all about... REALISM! No running with guns blazing... no circle strafing or bunny hopping to avoid being shot. Using your head and skills to outsmart the enemy... That's what INF is all about
[Rant over]
WellÉ
Actually your right it isn't nessicarily fun, but the correction to this problem isn't making the using of a scope harder, the solution needs to lie in the loadout itself. I only have a Robar in one of my loadouts and that is My Robar RC-50 Loadout.
Your right it isn't fun but I don't think it's fun either getting out shot at 20 yards when I can no longer use iron sights and an AGOG is impratical. I don't complain when I accept the downfall of an ACOG by lowering my Close Quarters Combat potenial with it's addition, just as you accept the down fall of your long range potential with its subtraction and the subseqeunt increase in CQB effectiveness
WellÉas for thoseÉyour right those do suck
Those are definatly issues that have been addressed with the utmost merit on your part Yurch and I appreicate that, very much so. What you and your mutator have done brings loads of unaddressed realism to Infiltration. Realism that I admire and desire to have in my Infiltration experience. You have no idea how glad I am your Mutator has addressed and disuaded the issues of fast games and incognitive rushers. It's because of your efforts that teamplay now has a much bigger part in Infiltration.
Actually your right it isn't nessicarily fun, but the correction to this problem isn't making the using of a scope harder, the solution needs to lie in the loadout itself. I only have a Robar in one of my loadouts and that is My Robar RC-50 Loadout.
Your right it isn't fun but I don't think it's fun either getting out shot at 20 yards when I can no longer use iron sights and an AGOG is impratical. I don't complain when I accept the downfall of an ACOG by lowering my Close Quarters Combat potenial with it's addition, just as you accept the down fall of your long range potential with its subtraction and the subseqeunt increase in CQB effectiveness
WellÉas for thoseÉyour right those do suck
Those are definatly issues that have been addressed with the utmost merit on your part Yurch and I appreicate that, very much so. What you and your mutator have done brings loads of unaddressed realism to Infiltration. Realism that I admire and desire to have in my Infiltration experience. You have no idea how glad I am your Mutator has addressed and disuaded the issues of fast games and incognitive rushers. It's because of your efforts that teamplay now has a much bigger part in Infiltration.
Okay, brownyman, that's where you've lost me. The scope sensitivity is a major feature.
This is really a toughie. It is definately one of those interpreted things. One could say that not being able to run at speeds equalling cheetas is disabilitating. One could also say that not being able to fall 25 feet is disabilitating. In real life, it is near impossible to hit things with a scoped rifles, standing up, of that weight and zoom magnification. The slight griding effect when you are standing is not ENOUGH of a representation of the dificulty to fire a weapon at that position.
This is really a toughie. It is definately one of those interpreted things. One could say that not being able to run at speeds equalling cheetas is disabilitating. One could also say that not being able to fall 25 feet is disabilitating. In real life, it is near impossible to hit things with a scoped rifles, standing up, of that weight and zoom magnification. The slight griding effect when you are standing is not ENOUGH of a representation of the dificulty to fire a weapon at that position.
Hey don't look at me, Warren is the one who said that.
Other rather something along those lines.
Other rather something along those lines.
As for me, when it comes down to it, I don't see much of a difference between vanilla INF and INF lite. There are just so many other good games out there where you can do all the things in in plain INF and more. It's just that INF is prettier. But with all that speed, it seems a waste to bother with iron sights. I'll have to check out this wolfenstein thing, and see how the sniping is done.
Be afraid...be very afraid of wolf...
I remember the first time I tried playing wolf; I couldn't hit anything cause A) the crosshairs and b) no weapon recoil
@ BrownyMan: You must support it his words if you use them. I havn't seen you on the servers (probably because you seem to never be on AFA2) It's just that the scope is so absolutely easy to use, the model used ingame is as bad as the sprinting or stamina or hipshooting.
I remember the first time I tried playing wolf; I couldn't hit anything cause A) the crosshairs and b) no weapon recoil
@ BrownyMan: You must support it his words if you use them. I havn't seen you on the servers (probably because you seem to never be on AFA2
) It's just that the scope is so absolutely easy to use, the model used ingame is as bad as the sprinting or stamina or hipshooting.Keganator I'm probably the only one who posts here who does not play RA. Maybe browncow too but thats cuz he is GAT.
I have been playing Inf for like 5 months but I havent checked out these forums until last week. Believe it or not you guys are the minority, most of Inf does not use RA. Usually one posts either on their clan's forum, another clan's forum, or the main ilcr league forums. I'm just here cuz I like to talk Inf, and I have some free time.
If you would like to have a discusion on why RA is not liked by some, these forums really arent the place to get answers. Like I said, I just dont find it satisfying.
Try the ilcr forums at www.ilcr.net
or a clan forum.
And I dont want any of you just posting things like RA RULES STUPIDS!
I have been playing Inf for like 5 months but I havent checked out these forums until last week. Believe it or not you guys are the minority, most of Inf does not use RA. Usually one posts either on their clan's forum, another clan's forum, or the main ilcr league forums. I'm just here cuz I like to talk Inf, and I have some free time.
If you would like to have a discusion on why RA is not liked by some, these forums really arent the place to get answers. Like I said, I just dont find it satisfying.
Try the ilcr forums at www.ilcr.net
or a clan forum.
And I dont want any of you just posting things like RA RULES STUPIDS!
And making RA client side is the most ridiculous idea I have ever heard. The reasons should be obvious. You might as well try to DE a guy on the top part of vietnam. (BTW I think if you like big maps, Vietnam takes the cake-just a thought if you've never tried it. AFA2 maplist kinda bland =P)
Whoever said that if I played RA for a week I'd like it, thats pretty much my plan for 2.87
No matter how horrible it seems at first I am having everyone I know try it out for a week before making any decisions. I feel that I owe Inf and its developers that much at least.
Whoever said that if I played RA for a week I'd like it, thats pretty much my plan for 2.87
No matter how horrible it seems at first I am having everyone I know try it out for a week before making any decisions. I feel that I owe Inf and its developers that much at least.
Damn straight. And having played ghost recon, tactical ops, and strike force, I can say with authority that they all suck compared to Inf, RA or no RA.
Re: WellÉ
What BrownyMan said. I like RA, but it needs help, just like stock 2.86. I think everything Browny said is what I indeed want. The only problem with RA was the scope oversensitivity. I bump up my sensitivity by default, and with RA on top, it's like I'm on crack, and can't even use the Robar. So I play on RA servers with shotgun, and it's great. It's hard to play on a regular 2.86 server after playing with RA. I start to bitch at every run and gun freak, something I usually woulnd't do. Addictions are bad. Do it right INF team, for the love of god
Jaymian
What BrownyMan said. I like RA, but it needs help, just like stock 2.86. I think everything Browny said is what I indeed want. The only problem with RA was the scope oversensitivity. I bump up my sensitivity by default, and with RA on top, it's like I'm on crack, and can't even use the Robar. So I play on RA servers with shotgun, and it's great. It's hard to play on a regular 2.86 server after playing with RA. I start to bitch at every run and gun freak, something I usually woulnd't do. Addictions are bad. Do it right INF team, for the love of god
Jaymian
no!
Jay is crazy!
i just have to fight ra here
kind of a mother protecting her cubs sort of thing
once again
Believe it or not you guys are the minority, most of Inf does not use RA.
Jay is crazy!
i just have to fight ra here
kind of a mother protecting her cubs sort of thing
once again
Believe it or not you guys are the minority, most of Inf does not use RA.