The 1911 Project

[Domino]

I think the dev forum would be much more efficient for getting help... if you are still interested, please move to this this thread...

http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showthread.php?t=123520

Thanks!

 

[Meplat]

Sara- *Nods* There's a good sized MG shoot planned for the 29'th of january. I'll get some pics of the "neat stuff".. Hell, today, I wasted time shooting the Austrian MG-3 variant, and a couple M-16's. The "less interesting" ordinance was my old SMLE's, the AR-15 and WW2 era handguns. Then some .22's.I seemed to be the only person who did not own a 10/22 Ruger. (I own a 1970 vintage Remington.) I'll see how the pics came out, then post em. I'll keep it of the ordinance..


Nightmare- *Shrugs* It's a mass produced, easily changed component. We're not talking millwork, just a "pop-n-go" changeover. But it's kind of a moot point since they've gone to the M9, and SOCOM.

GD- BIG diffrence between a specialist issued handgun, and a general issue sidearm. The SOCOM is not broad issue to the scale the 1911/1911A1 was.

Jayhova- Don't forget that rare .45 ACP Luger variant that was also tested.Compared to other self loading handguns of the day, the 1911 design was clearly the best.

Meplat-

 

[MP_Duke]

allow me to throw a tennis ball and knock you out

 

[NTKB]

Damn duke at this rate your post count of spam is gonna be more than mine!

 

[SaraP]

I'd like to interject my 2 cents here. The reason that the 1911 was selected in the first place was the stopping power of the .45 cal. At the time John Browning was developing a 9mm varient of what would become the 1911. The Army asked him to create a similar pistol in .45 because they felt that it was too close to the .38 they were trying to replace. The reason they wanted to replace the .38 was experience in the Philipinense had showed them that the .38 lacked the ability to stop a determained man with a machete before he hacked someone.

Yep. Different battlefield now, though; with infantry body armor becoming more and more common, they HAVE to trade off knockdown for penetration (although not to the point of going to a little peashooter like the five-seveN).

 

[Nightmare]

Nightmare- *Shrugs* It's a mass produced, easily changed component. We're not talking millwork, just a "pop-n-go" changeover. But it's kind of a moot point since they've gone to the M9, and SOCOM.

It may be a moot point, but I'm curious anyway. Pop-and-go, you say. But how many pistols would you have to make that change to? And how many qualified gunsmiths does the army have to do such work? And testing, too!
The men can't well be allowed to modify their own weapons, now? That would probably violate a large numbers of army regulations and render a lot of insurance papers worthless. So it would take time and money.

Unless you bought a new series of .45 pistols from Colt, of course. They should have newer models with all the improvements you can think of.

Other than that I know you can make a .45 into a weapon very different from the basic 1911A. I've inspected the gun used by a local "practical" shooter, with new sights, extended magazines and modified grip. The double-stack magazine held 18 rounds, but the gun was too big for me to use with one hand. I'll stay with something that I can use one-handed, thanks.

 

[N'kEnNy]

Has anyone considered making a simple replacement skin/model/anim for the Desert Eagle?

Yes, I know the weapons aren't very similar in real-life... but this is inf-life.
The Desert Eagle is a powerful 7 round handgun. (or is that 9 round now that it seems the Desert Eagle is .357 in 2.9?)

A simple replacement skin for enthusiasts which won't change gameplay in any way. Would that be considered acceptable? I'm hardly a hardcore 1911 fanatic, but I know which model/skin/sound I'd be using...

 

[Meplat]

Nightmare- The spring colleted bushing has been around for 30 odd years now. It's been tested, just not by the U.S.Military.

"Qualified Gunsmiths"? I'll hazard a guess. "Zero" - Gunsmithing, and being an armorer are radically diffrent things. One involves the creation of a firearm from bare stock, the other involves maintenance. The U.S. has'nt manufactured it's own martial firearms in some time now, depending on outside contractors instead.

Regarding how difficult this changeover is? I'll walk you through it.

1, ensure the handgun is unloaded. Let the slide forward, and decock the hammer.
2,push the bushing retaining plug in, and turn the bushing til it releases. Ease the spring pressure off.
3, recompress the return spring with thumb pressure, and push the new bushing over the barrel, turning it until the bushing retaining plunger clicks into the recess of the plunger.
4, function test, and return to service.

Sounds like that "practical"shooter is using a racegunned para ordinance. that's like comparing my WW2 vintage M1911A1 to a Colt .36 Navy. Unfortunately, that's the direction PPC, and IPSC has been going.

The chances of the U.S. Military recontracting to make another batch of 1911's for general issue are all but nonexistant. The M9 is here to stay.

Meplat-

 

[SaraP]

Kimber's CDP-II series 1911s are ultra-sweet, albiet pricey.

 

[jaunty]

As I've said before, who wants 7 rounds that can hardly put a hole in a leather jacket when you can have 12 rounds that can put 2 holes each in whoever you fire them at, or even 12 rounds of said rounds too wussy to punch through sheet metal.

It's been outdated since WW2 (By the Browning Hi-Power), so just get the fuck over it. Centimental value is no reason to corrupt a game with your bloated, and inevitably biased add on. And if it isn't biased, then nobody's going to be getting killed by your 1911, so there's no point adding the 10mb or so it'll take to get it in there. Go back to stabbing yourself in the face with a coathanger. I'm sure you'll find the feeling comfortingly familiary.

 

[Nightmare]

Meplat- Thanks for the explanations.

 

[SaraP]

As I've said before, who wants 7 rounds that can hardly put a hole in a leather jacket when you can have 12 rounds that can put 2 holes each in whoever you fire them at, or even 12 rounds of said rounds too wussy to punch through sheet metal.

Ahh, .45ACP will penetrate clothing and thin sheet metal quite nicely -- it doesn't have problems until Level IIA body armor, which a hot 9mm load is moderately effective against.

 

[Domino]

unarmored targets have not always been stopped instantly by 9mm bullets. With .45ACP, 9 times out of 10 you're going to knock the person down with the first shot.

 

[SaraP]

unarmored targets have not always been stopped instantly by 9mm bullets. With .45ACP, 9 times out of 10 you're going to knock the person down with the first shot.

The .45 ACP has a lot of “oomph” behind it, but no firearm has enough raw kinetic energy to physically knock down a human – it’s a combination of impact and shock that does it. The .45ACP does have more punch against unarmored targets, but not nearly as much more as .45ACP fans like to imply. There’s nothing wrong with the .45 unless you’re dealing with people in body armor-- my own defensive carry of choice is a Beretta 8045 Cougar in .45ACP – but it’s important to remember that a lot of the hyperbole surrounding the caliber is just that, hyperbole.

Note: This isn’t a personal slam on you Domino, just a general statement about .45ACP fanboys.

 

[jaunty]

Ahh, .45ACP will penetrate clothing and thin sheet metal quite nicely -- it doesn't have problems until Level IIA body armor, which a hot 9mm load is moderately effective against.

It's called hyperbole, sweetheart. Get used to it.

Point is still 9mm > .45 on the modern battle field, and unless the .45 is coming out of the barrel of something like a UMP, it can just go to hell because it has absolutely no place on a battlefield.

I also submit to the fanboys that a hot 9mm JHP will provide reasonable penetration whilst still providing all of the "OMG HE FELL ACROSS THE ROOM BECAUSE .45 IS A HAND CANNON ROUND!" power that you need.

 

[Meplat]

I bet a 57MM recoiless' canister round would knock someone down with one shot..

Hey, it's man portable, and shoulder fired..

Umm, I'll go now.

Meplat-

 

[SaraP]

That's because it's a recoilless weapon -- or more correctly, recoil-compensated ("recoilless" weapons work by venting part of the firing gas backwards, cancelling out their own recoil). Unless you use a trick like that, any weapon that delivers enough force to physically knock down a target would also be launched with enough recoil to physical knock down the shooter.

 

[Domino]

If you're saying that you could take a .45 round to the chest and not fall down... you're definitely wrong. Period.

 

[Meplat]

Sara- That was my feeble attempt at humor. Yea, and mightily did it stink.

Domino- Depends on a lot of variables. Projectile construction, shot placement,type of ammo, etc..If the "shootee" is wearing a reasonable bit of kevlar, I'd say "yes" and "easily". I can list a HELL of a lot more 9X19 loads I'd rather not be zapped with than I can .45 ACP. One example of 9X19, unless you're vest consists of a substantial piece of homogenous steel plate, it'll just be an easy way to carry your corpse off. (Czech 50's vintage SMG ball)

Meplat-

 

[OICW]

So all hits to the chest are the same regardless of placement now are they?