StarCraft II

[SleepyHe4d]

Has anyone tried playing against the AI on Fastest speed? I recently started playing on fastest because I found out that it's the default for multiplayer and I have to change it to fastest every time I start the game up.

I've been trying to play 3 AI free for all on fastest and it's the stupidest crap ever. All the AIs attack and rush me and demolish me right away, it's unfair as hell. I was hoping they would at least fight each other a bit. I'm going to try a couple 1v1 fastest games.

 

[TWD]

Here's a description of my Zerg build. Perhaps it will help.

Build drones till you hit the supply block at 10
Create an overlord.
Save until you have enough to build a spawning pool.
While the pool is building create 3 drones, and another overlord.
Create a Queen and 6 zerglings when the pool is finished.
Create an extractor, and put 3 drones on it when it's finished.
Continue to build drones.
When you have enough gas build either a roach warren or upgrade to a lair.

At this point it's not so set. You have to build attacking units, and maintain your economy. Don't stop making drones at your main until you have 16(minerals)+6(gas)=32 drones in your main. At that point you should probably expand.

Also don't forget to use the spawn larvae ability on your Queen every chance you get.

 

[SleepyHe4d]

blah blah ****ing blah! I'm tired of reading all the thread, tired of playing the alphas/betas/zetas/whatever... since 2007! Just gimme the release date!!!! DNF II?

Wtf? The game was only recently announced and the beta only really recently released and the game is coming out within the next year, what's the problem?

 

[DarQraven]

Wtf? The game was only recently announced and the beta only really recently released and the game is coming out within the next year, what's the problem?

Recently announced? How's 2007?

 

[SleepyHe4d]

Recently announced? How's 2007?

Yeah, do you not know how game development works? Look at Half-Life 2 and plenty of other games and devs who work hard to polish their games to made sure they deliver a masterpiece.

 

[DarQraven]

I am perfectly aware how game development tends to completely ignore deadlines, especially in the case of Valve and Blizzard, but I wouldn't exactly call SC2's development smooth or anything.

I mean, beta has only started more than a year after the game was first supposed to come out. Even now, the release is as vague as "Aiming for a Q2 2010 release". No specifics at all.
For a sequel to a 12 year old game, they're taking their sweet time and then some.

I understand why they're doing it, I just don't think you're justified in contradicting Polychron on this. The constant announcements, retractions, delays, uncertainty, hype building and then more delays, etc even had some of the TL.net fanboys in a state of complete indifference to the game anymore.

 

[Ignotium]

Yeah, do you not know how game development works? Look at Half-Life 2 and plenty of other games and devs who work hard to polish their games to made sure they deliver a masterpiece.

A 4 hour game, that you can actually complete in 2 hours, can hardly be labeled a masterpiece. Just my 2 cents

 

[SleepyHe4d]

I just don't think you're justified in contradicting Polychron on this.

Well I don't think he's justified in calling it DNF 2. It's NOTHING like the same situation. I think SC2 is making plenty of headway and coming along at just a fine rate and they have an awesome game to show for it. If he's tired of the thread then why not leave it?



- - - - - - - -
Anyways, back to my recent playing, I heard that a 2 gate rush with toss is one of the strongest rushes and a 10 pool rush with zerg is one of the weakest. Yet, when I'm playing toss against Zerg and try this, the AI brings in a **** ton of lings and rapes my gates and zealots. Why the hell is this happening if 10 pool is weak and 2 gate is strong?

I hate this stupid ass AI with its perfect start game macro.

 

[DarQraven]

Well I don't think he's justified in calling it DNF 2. It's NOTHING like the same situation. I think SC2 is making plenty of headway and coming along at just a fine rate and they have an awesome game to show for it. If he's tired of the thread then why not leave it?



- - - - - - - -
Anyways, back to my recent playing, I heard that a 2 gate rush with toss is one of the strongest rushes and a 10 pool rush with zerg is one of the weakest. Yet, when I'm playing toss against Zerg and try this, the AI brings in a **** ton of lings and rapes my gates and zealots. Why the hell is this happening if 10 pool is weak and 2 gate is strong?

I hate this stupid ass AI with its perfect start game macro.

It's all in the details, especially when defending rushes.
For instance, 2 gateways in the middle of your base and 2 zealots blocking a ramp will get pounded by zerglings. They'll abuse the AI by attacking once, drawing them out of your base and surrounding for easy kills.
With the exact same timings and build order, build your two gates very close together and near your ramp, and place the two zealots in the only spot that's left as an entrance to your base, and the zealots will be eating lings for breakfast.

Spoiler

Optimally, only one ling can attack your front zealot at once, which means that one zealot can eat through 5 lings before it goes down.
It takes one zergling 20 seconds to take down one zealot on its own, while it takes that same zealot only 21.6 seconds to take down all 6 zerglings. If the zerg player is at all competent, he will simply not attack in this situation.

Conversely, if you just let the zerglings surround your two zealots, it will only take all 6 zerglings 5 attack rounds = 3.45 seconds to take down one Zealot. After this, the other one is toast.

It should also be noted that 2-gate leaves room for a tech structure early on (as opposed to 3gate balls-out offense builds or fast expo).

Two options here: Forge + 2gate = 1/0/0 zealots: Instantly give all your ground units a boost with +1 attack and use zealots and ramp blocking to hold off zerg rushes. Optional cannons for easy-mode. From here, prepare whatever you planned after this. The best part is that this works equally well regardless of how many zerglings he's sending your way. Only one will attack at once, meaning as long as you've got at least a sixth the number of zealots that he's got zerglings, you win. And that's assuming you haven't built any stalkers or cannons or gotten the +1 attack upgrade, which makes it even easier to hold off.


Cybercore + 2gate = Sentry + zealot defense. Use sentries to completely block ramp (in the case of an all-out rush and you don't have enough units to defend), or partially block ramp and make a narrow choke (=free win for your zealots).

 

[TWD]

It's all in the details, especially when defending rushes.
For instance, 2 gateways in the middle of your base and 2 zealots blocking a ramp will get pounded by zerglings. They'll abuse the AI by attacking once, drawing them out of your base and surrounding for easy kills.
With the exact same timings and build order, build your two gates very close together and near your ramp, and place the two zealots in the only spot that's left as an entrance to your base, and the zealots will be eating lings for breakfast.

Simplified version: Don't let the zerglings surround your zealots.

Also it's not that the zergling rush is less potent than the zealot rush. What you're hearing is the comment by Blizzard devs that they had a harder time balancing out the Protoss rushes. Players were able to use the chronoboost feature in ways that the devs simply couldn't anticipate.

I get people all the time with the 10 pool, but I can't remember the last time I got zealot rushed.

 

[Defeat]

SC2ProMod? I don't know if I like where it's going but here is the link:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=117987

btw HOLY **** this thread was posted today and already has 38 pages of replies.

 

[SleepyHe4d]

To clarify, I meant building the 2 gates right in front of their ramp, or close to it. It's supposedly a strat that even pros use. Doesn't work on the super early massing and rushing AI though.

That's probably a root of the problem with the AI though. They start strong, but if you can survive their first few attack you can mow through them pretty easy. It's probably cause their economy is screwed since they focus on early massing too much.

SC2ProMod? I don't know if I like where it's going but here is the link:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=117987

btw HOLY **** this thread was posted today and already has 38 pages of replies.

So. ****ing. Stupid.

I hate pro mods and other bull****. The people that make them QQ too much about the original. Lame.

Liquid`Tyler:
It's good but not perfect. It is a lot better than vanilla SC2 though. I feel the most important thing is that this mod rewards skill, not metagame. I felt I was getting no benefit from being a highly skilled player at SC2. I was losing games to players with terrible skills because they massed the right unit and a-moved. This game injects the skill back into SC II that was missing.

TeamLiquid.net:
Will everyone like this mod?

Liquid`Tyler:
Smart people will. I think almost all the Americans will quickly move to this. The Koreans too will understand that this improves the game. Some cheesy players, eastern Europeans and south Americans will probably not like it. Anyone with an understanding of the game will like it.

Wow, look at this pathetic fool. Generalizing huge regions. LOL @ the bolded part. QQing because he couldn't counter his opponent.

 

[Defeat]

Don't read this until you read my above post:

Spoiler

It's already April 1st where that was posted

 

[SleepyHe4d]

Spoiler

Oh you little bitch, that got me good. I swear, wtf, I didn't fall for the Google animal translate, but I fall for this. I guess cause it seems plausible that assholes would want to do this. Hell, it might just happen. Also cause it's a community and not a big company it makes it more believable.

 

[SleepyHe4d]

Okay, I officially HATE Protoss. Hate playing as them and hate playing against them.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

Protoss were always the hardest to get going with in SC. And those that could would destroy with them. No reason for that to change.

 

[Defeat]

Protoss is toted as the easiest to learn/play :]

 

[TWD]

If you're having trouble with the beta AI you're probably better off as Terran as they are best for turtling. They are the easiest to wall in with those supply depots, they have the strongest defenses, and mule helps you temporarily ramp up your economy when you need it.

In multiplayer I really don't think that one race is easier to play than another. It all just comes down to personal preference. Terran is good for turtling, Zerg is for massing units, and Protoss has all the fun tricks and technology. I think a lot of people just go for Protoss because they remember pwning the SC1 AI with carriers, but it's often not a good fit.

 

[SleepyHe4d]

That's strange, cause I'm fine without turtling except for protoss. I can easily beat the AI without turtling with zerg and terran but I can only beat the AI if I turtle with Toss.

I don't like turtling though and I'm also experimenting with different strategies, but with protoss I can't seem to be successful unless turtling.

 

[DarQraven]

@Defeat: Protoss is economically the easiest. As long as you remember to build pylons on time and in SC2 chronoboost, you're set. It's the actual unit control and what strategy to use that is hard as **** though.

Look at the differences between races.

Expanding: Zerg gets a hatch for 300 and can get that expansion running in no time using Queens. Terran gets to build the expansion in their base and float it away, even to island expansions or ones that are blocked off.
Protoss: 400 minerals, no special abilities.

Scouting: Zerg has overlords and can get zerglings to deny scouting in their base. Terran has a free maphack once they get orbital command and their tier1 units will pwn scouts due to range. Also, AA turrets are detectors and kill an observer in 2 shots now.
Protoss: Your tier 1 unit is melee so you can't possibly kill their scout until you've got two of them or a stalker. Nothing you can do against scan, and overlords are expendable enough to just have hanging over your base for a while. Observers are tier2, cost 100 gas and destroyed by basically anything.

Defense: Zerg is a a bit weak in this regard, but then again, they are the swarmy offensive race. If an expansion does get destroyed, it's back up again in under a minute. Terran builds a wall and receives temporary invulnerability in early game. They mass marines+marauders behind it who can attack both ground and air and are good against anything save immortals+zealots(who can't attack them due to your wall) or templar+colossus (ridiculously high tech and just received a nerf in the latest patch). Also, you can't actually shoot at any of those until you get vision up on the ramp. You could use observers or air units for this, except the marines can also attack air.

Map control and smart playing is a lot harder to do with Protoss in my experience. If you don't constantly pressure Terran and Zerg, you lose. That's a difference. You don't just get all those cool tech tricks for free.
This all changes when you get to the level where SC2 is second nature, but I'm perfectly confident in saying that 90% of the player will never achieve that level. Ever.
Every race has their challenges, and for Protoss it's midgame scouting and map control (and consequently not getting wtfpwned by an air attack you didn't see coming).