Religious/Evolutionary Debate Thread

[Chrysaor]

I think Yahweh is god by Moses a little less than 4000 years ago. (I'd say 1600 BC)

Imhotep the first doctor, the architect of the first pyramids and the Pharoah's vizier was alive about 4600 years ago. (2630-2611 BC) Imhotep correctly identified the function of every organ in the human body, was a poet, identified hundreds of medical ailments and their causes and possible cures, and created the limestone construction technique which not only yeilded the best pyramids, but revolutionalized all of Egyptian architecture in a manner that allowed it to still be so dramatic. Imhotep is in my opinion the most phenomenal scientist of all time and he predates Moses and Abraham. He did all this without being born into nobility, and we still have absolutely no idea how they built the pyramids.

 

[Zarkazm]

Pagowned!

 

[QUALTHWAR]

sunday = football. debate later..... FOOTBALL!!!!!!!!

 

[Stakhanov]

Seeing how big this thread grows , maybe we should try debating on a specialized forum... Cat Fuzz , why don't you ask the Evolution / Creation Discussion Forum regulars for in-depth explanations ? Happy arguing

 

[GoAt]

Sure it is. The first 5 books written by Moses about 4000 years ago.

this basicly says that christianity was the first religion and is the only religion.

how many more times are you going to renig?

 

[Cat Fuzz]

this basicly says that christianity was the first religion and is the only religion.

how many more times are you going to renig?

No, it doesn't. Christianity is only 2000 years old. Judaism is older.

 

[GoAt]

so what makes christianity right and judaism wrong?
just becuase they dont belive the messiah has come yet makes the wrong?

 

[Chrysaor]

Does seem a bit odd that out of all the dozens of Jewish Messiahs, this one get's to be "right".

 

[Cat Fuzz]

so what makes christianity right and judaism wrong?
just becuase they dont belive the messiah has come yet makes the wrong?

No, the Jews are God's chosen people. It difficult to explain.

 

[oosyxxx]

I don’t see anything about great creatures that used to walk the earth. I don’t see anything about dinosaurs. If god made all creatures, then he made dinosaurs, too. Scholars don’t talk about these creatures, but they used to walk the earth. This brings up a really serious problem for bible people. You have adam and eve and all god’s creatures roaming the earth, then you have these giant dinosaurs that could rip you in half with one bite and they must be living on the earth at the same time. If things started with adam and eve, including creatures large and small, how do you explain scholars not filling the pages with reports of a brontosaurs here and there. I don’t know about you, but if I see a creature with a neck 40-foot long, I’m probably going to include it in the bible as a great creature that god created.

I’m going to tell about how Solomon got his arms ripped off by a large dinosaur that came crashing through the camp one night. These creatures were all over the earth. They weren’t isolated on some lost island where man didn’t know they existed and didn’t have to worry about them. If I were a scholar, I’m not going to be talking about some freakin’ goat as I pen the pages of the bible and forget to tell about the gigantic creatures that my super god created.

i give you hicks 3:16: "And lo Jesus and the disciples walked to Nazareth. But the trail was blocked by a giant brontosaurus... with a splinter in his paw. And O the disciples did run a shriekin': 'What a big ****ing lizard, Lord!' But Jesus was unafraid and he took the splinter from the brontosaurus's paw and the big lizard became his friend. And Jesus sent him to Scotland where he lived in a loch for O so many years inviting thousands of American tourists to bring their fat ****ing families and their fat dollar bills. And oh Scotland did praise the Lord. Thank you Lord, thank you Lord. Thank you Lord."

 

[Chrysaor]

No, the Jews are God's chosen people. It difficult to explain.

I realize you're probably sick of this thread, but if you could explain that from a Christian prespective I would be genuinely interested.

 

[Cat Fuzz]

I realize you're probably sick of this thread, but if you could explain that from a Christian prespective I would be genuinely interested.

http://www.preteristarchive.com/Preterism/dennis-todd_p_11.html


I skimmed through this and it seems to be a bit of a complex explanation. I'll keep researching.

 

[QUALTHWAR]

I don't believe god had a plan.

Sorry, yesterday was football day; I have some catching up to do.

Yeah, i guess it was redfist who said: It might be that god had it all planned out from the start,in creation,mabye there was a logistical reason for the flood.

...when i asked about the incest thing.

 

[GoAt]

No, the Jews are God's chosen people. It difficult to explain.

i know what it means cat (dont forget my upbringing and relatives)

so if i understood correctly, if i convert to judaism, then i recive my get out of hell free card?

 

[QUALTHWAR]

Dino and human tracks together.

I remember seeing a show quite awhile ago about these tracks together, and they explained what had happened. It was something like there was a soft bed of water and the dino made a print. The waterway eventually was covered up, covering the dino tracks, then millions of years later, that region became a flood zone again and it uncovered the dino tracks. A thin layer of mud was deposited and man walked next to the prints and left his footprints next to the dino tracks.

The climate went through another cyclic change and the area became dry again, and both tracks were covered up. Then the climate made another wetter cyclic change and the around flooded again and both prints were uncovered.

 

[Mister_Prophet]

I remember seeing a show quite awhile ago about these tracks together, and they explained what had happened. It was something like there was a soft bed of water and the dino made a print. The waterway eventually was covered up, covering the dino tracks, then millions of years later, that region became a flood zone again and it uncovered the dino tracks. A thin layer of mud was deposited and man walked next to the prints and left his footprints next to the dino tracks.

The climate went through another cyclic change and the area became dry again, and both tracks were covered up. Then the climate made another wetter cyclic change and the around flooded again and both prints were uncovered.

Now that you mention it I do believe I saw that program too.

 

[QUALTHWAR]

As far as I'm concerned, creation is right, period. If someone comes along with supposed evidence to the contrary, I'm going to assume that the evidence is wrong and the Bible is right. Critics of the Bible are always saying that it can't be trusted because man is not perfect and makes mistakes, I'm turning that reasoning back around on your science.

Yes, but in doing so, you are leveling the playing field in a sense. You are saying that man wrote the bible and he’s not perfect, so there could be mistakes, and man is not perfect so science could be wrong as well. I think we have 3 categories:

Where I think science wins out is it knows it’s not perfect and makes an attempt to disprove and verify results.

Then there’s the religious people who just accept what they are told and don’t attempt to seek out a truth.

Then there is a third category of people who believe in god and do make attempts to prove his existence by finding noah’s arc, for example. The problem is, no one has found the arc, and no one has found any verifiable evidence of god. These people are relegated to the second category where they are just accepting what they are told, for the moment.

 

[QUALTHWAR]

As far as dinosaurs and men are concerned, I agree with Mister Prophet that it is much more likely that the dinosaurs lived on in small numbers until humans hunted them off, than humans being around 600 million years ago. They find weird corpses sometimes, and Q's earlier mention of the coelecanth reappearing is a really great documented example. Sure wish we could net a giant squid.

The demise of the dinosaur is well documented. We now have a clear understanding of what happened to them. I talked about this in an earlier post.

The fossil record around the entire world, not in just one region, shows dinosaurs and 90% of all species dying off at one time, about 65 million years ago. Above this boundary, life was everywhere. Below this boundary, life was almost nonexistent. There was no dwindling of species, something happened like the snap of a finger.

Scientists noticed a high percentage of iridium at this same boundary (K T boundary). Iridium is extremely rare on earth because it’s a heavy metal and most of it has sunk deep into the earth. It’s important to note that this iridium was found all over the world at this death boundary, but barely any elsewhere. This meant something happened to cause this metal to be more pronounced at one instance of time.

Scientists know that asteroids are rich in iridium, and they suspected one hit the earth at this time. But where was the smoking gun? The impact of such an asteroid would be huge and there should be a huge crater.

We finally found the crater off the Yucatan Peninsula. It dated to the same age as the death boundary, and it was large enough to cause worldwide destruction. The rock that hit was estimated to be about 6 miles across. It vaporized most everything, the shockwave traveled around the earth several times. Huge tsunamis were created; fires all over the earth were created from debris that was blown out of the crater and settled back down to earth. Iridium was sprinkled about the earth like a salt shaker as it rained down on everything.

Ash clouds blanketed the earth and threw the world into a nuclear winter. It turned cold and what didn’t die off from the initial impact was left trying to survive without any sunlight for warmth. Plants died, food sources dwindled to almost nothing. About the only thing that survived were fish and mammals in the oceans and animals that could live underground and hibernate, or live off meager food supplies.

The evidence is overwhelming that this happened.

 

[Frostblood]

i know what it means cat (dont forget my upbringing and relatives)

so if i understood correctly, if i convert to judaism, then i recive my get out of hell free card?

I'm afraid not. The Jews are God's chosen people, but they still need to accept Jesus to be saved. Before Jesus was born being a good Jew would have been OK, but nowadays, it just doesn't cut it. God moved the goalposts!

I think Christians believe that with the death of Jesus God instituted a "New Covenent" with humanity, and now Christians are Israel, the people of God. Before Jesus there was the Old Covenent which was with the Jewish people. Before that there was no covenent at all...

 

[GoAt]

now i remember being taught (while in church) that the battle of armegeddon will be fought here on earth..


why must it be here? that there hints at the fact that the bible and those who wrote it are under the asumption that the earth is the center of the universe