Please Fix this before release..:)

[Peter Carlson]

The energy rules are core XMP gameplay. We gave it a lot of thought, and so did the beta testers. We tried all kinds of combinations. I'm sure you guys all remember. I quite like the way things play out as-is. Having said that, it's FMI's project and they can do whatever they want, with my blessing and the blessings of the rest of the XLE guys.

 

[XMP.Arc]

Speaking strictly from the sidelines if i may... as a former U2/XMP beta tester I concur w/ Auron, Dandel et al about energy rules.

Thanks also should go out to the distinguished Peter Carlson for his continued input and vision


All Hail XMP!! Thanx FMI

 

[Sir_Brizz]

If you even HAVE midfield, warn them. EMP/Shock/Rocket will annihilate both and earn the guy massive points (always good in his eyes) and set the enemy team back due to the loss of their rush.
Now, if you don't have someone covering midfield, that's another problem. But I've intercepted dual-carrier raptors on pubs more times than I care to think about.

I have too...but the thing is that it almost makes it TOO easy.

the people who are skilled enough to get arti registering capability and capping all arti's in 2 min are quite skilled, and should win that fast, because it takes a lot of working together to get that if your a clan

Pubs? On a pub it doesn't take much skill, because usually there is one defender.....well maybe one defender...you MIGHT get to fight...

I do agree with Peter, pretty much all combinations were tested in the beta and the ENERGY is just right, imo. That doesn't mean the problem couldn't be fixed some other way.

 

[Magwa]

That would totally change the way XMP works. Artifacts being available at the beginning of the game is an awesome play strategy. If your team is good enough to get the energy while having a guy with an artifact, then you deserve to capture that artifact.

The keys to prolonging games are playing a two or three man defense at the beginning of the game. If they are good defenders, they will most likely kill the ranger or hurt him so that a midfield interception can be done.

Personally, I have done tons of one or two minute games because I love to rush. The huge majority of the time I get away because there is no defense to stop me. I think changing it to where you can't steal until you have 800 energy is stupid, giving the defense time to set up. I have seem some killer defenses by some really good techs just 600 or 700 energy into the game, and they can be really frustrating to get through when the rest of your team is playing midfield and defense.

A change this big to XMP would seriously hinder old strategies and make games MUCH longer. Think of Lowlands and Kaminari. If the teams keep on switching energies, then it would take an extremely long time to get to 800 energy, not to mention THEN you would have to try and get arties and once you do you lose the energy again.

Magwa, you say that defenders at the beginning of the game don't have anything to work with. Yeah right. A good tech and a shotgun can take out a ranger one shot when he goes for the arti in the node. A good gunner can put the flamethrower stuff on the node and use incendiary grenades if a ranger is near. A good ranger on D can chase after the guy who has the arti.

Bottom Line: Don't change XMP.

No one said anything about 800 power level i did NOT say it had to be at full charge but how in the name of everything holy does it make sence that you can take one away from a unpowered node yet you can not register one??

the 1 min wonder was the biggest determent for me to the game and the vast majority of play will be on pubs Not clan matches so mabye there could be a mutator to try it i have never said it would be the cure but it sure needs something to stop those 1 min games.

 

[spineblaZe]

Magwa, the point isn't the power level or the amount of time that should be changed or added. The point we're trying to make is don't change it at all. Putting a time limit or power limit on it only limits strategy. Limiting the amount of strategy required also reduces the amount of teamwork needed. This makes the game linear. Linear gameplay, while nice for new players, makes the game become stale and dull. (Onslaught anyone? )

Let's recap:
More variety = more options, more ways to win, more strategy and better replay value.
Less variety = stale, repetitive gameplay.

Bottom line, don't change it!

 

[[_X_]BULLDOG]

Yeah, I'm with Auron. Rushing is part of the game.

what game? did not see the game start it just ended.
Rushing is no fun at all, whats the point of playing the game if you guys the game ends before peeps spawn in game,
hmmmm it goes to shows you that peeps that rush the game cant play game at all.
xmp needs real players who can play a good game.

 

[Ðork]

Peeps who can't defend against a rush can't play the game at all .

 

[[DOA]Kharn]

Its always a good idea to keep 2 guys in the arti room to stop the rush. Its an extremely viable tactic, which sometimes results in a quick arti cap, sometimes (rarely) 2 arti caps.

Remember you take one of thiers then they cant win the game in 1 minute even if they do score both.

 

[W0RF]

Anyone that plays RTS's knows this.

100% correct. A shotty, a rifle and a couple of turrets are enough for me while my team gets energy. You don't want ppl to take your artifacts, try shooting them when they go after your arts.

Remember you take one of thiers then they cant win the game in 1 minute even if they do score both.

150% correct. The ability to take arts while YOUR node is unpowered ALLOWS YOU a safety net against the other team pwning you. It can stall a 1-minute match, or delay a winning team long enough for you to retake some energy. The ability to take arts while THEIR node is unpowered is critical because if you had to wait for the OTHER team to have 800 energy before you could take it, no one would ever get energy, they'd just milk the clock to keep their opponents from taking any artifacts.

This CANNOT be changed. It will BREAK the gameplay.

 

[[DF]phalanx]

pah
i hate it
/me gets to something to hack
artifact stolen
artifact stolen
the enemy has control of all the artifacts
thats ghey 1 minuite in the game

 

[W0RF]

pah
i hate it
/me gets to something to hack
artifact stolen
artifact stolen
the enemy has control of all the artifacts
thats ghey 1 minuite in the game

feh.

turret deployed
bust out the shotty
artifact stolen
BLAM
artifact returned
artifact stolen
BLAM
artifact returned

I mean, is it really a surprise?!? Hey, they did an early art rush, I totally didn't know they were gonna try that?

Teamwork is critical in this game, if you don't have it, you're screwed whether you stop the early rush or not. If you DO have it, then you need one or two people on thronewatching duty. If everyone is a punk and leaves you behind, as far as I'm concerned you need to take responsibility for guarding against a rush because you're a vet and YOU KNOW it's coming.

I'm not trying to be harsh to you specifically, I only mean to point out that I don't think the problem with rushes is a gameplay issue, I think it's a teamplay issue.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

It's a pubs issue. in REAL team games, and competitive play, you're right. It's not an issue.

 

[[_X_]BULLDOG]

I agree with you 200% on what you say \/\/0RF
I must amit i rush to the arty's but i try to keep that with the clans, ie when we have scrim, matchs or practices, because 80% of player's are newbies and none clan players who dont know the strategy's.
I do think its unfair for the newbies and none clan players who try to have a fun game but cant cos of rushes, the game ends to fast for them.
you must remember whats its like when your the newdie who goes to play a fun game but the game ends to fast.
so come on guys please keep the rushing for your practices, scrim and your matchs and let those who are new in the game to have fun, killing is more fun then cap arty's to fast.....

 

[Maxx]

If artifact stealing was enregy dependant it would ruin the game. everyone would have mass deffenses essentially making this an assault type map. Who cna break the deffenses first wins the game. I like the balance of deffense and offense thats required to win. A weakness in any of the positions can mean a quick game. No deffense? bye bye artis within a few minutes, no offense? watch your deffense get flustratingly whittled away and you'll be energy starving the whole match.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

Think of someone that's playing for the first time and the first six maps they play go for 2 minutes each.

 

[Magwa]

I agree with you 200% on what you say \/\/0RF
I must amit i rush to the arty's but i try to keep that with the clans, ie when we have scrim, matchs or practices, because 80% of player's are newbies and none clan players who dont know the strategy's.
I do think its unfair for the newbies and none clan players who try to have a fun game but cant cos of rushes, the game ends to fast for them.
you must remember whats its like when your the newdie who goes to play a fun game but the game ends to fast.
so come on guys please keep the rushing for your practices, scrim and your matchs and let those who are new in the game to have fun, killing is more fun then cap arty's to fast.....

very well said ...my point is i can play with player who know how to play no problem i expect the rush..but my point is that most of the games will be played on pubs with people who are trying to learn the game..and i know from experiance that the 1 min wonder game leaves peeps saying WTF this is no fun....so all i am really tring to say here is IF the both teams had to have at least One powersourse before any artifact could be taken from their node it would make the game more balanced in the very beginning of the game.The better players will win regardless of this but it will make the game last longer and give new players the chance to learn how to play.

I will play no matter what but like Ut2004 alot of peeps try it and are owned bad and quit ,personely i believe XMP is the very best gametype today and i want to see it suceed bigtime .I agree with almost all the points posted here just try to see my point as well,it is not the only way but just a suggestion...

 

[W0RF]

Maybe all us vets can sign a pact to float through various pubs and defend against the rush: show others what we have learned.

Just to play devil's advocate here: having to adjust to the early rush never drove players away from StarCraft or Age of Empires.

 

[Mantik]

Don't mess with it. It doesn't need "fixing."

My friends and I used to rush all the time, it's a great strategy. If your team can't defend a rush, you're not going to win in the long run anyway. This is a strategically-oriented game after all. If you can't come up with a strategy to defend against a rush, go play qWaKE omf lolorz



Anyone that plays RTS's knows this.

:tup: End of discussion.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

Just to play devil's advocate here: having to adjust to the early rush never drove players away from StarCraft or Age of Empires.

StarCraft wasn't the first RTS to have "early game rushes". They were in C&C 1. The problem is that in an RTS you can expect an early rush only if you 1> know the other player is better than you, or 2> don't know if he is better than you or using a rushing team. For example, someone playing Protoss would never rush early because it would cost him the defense of his base. Conversely, someone who is Zerg would never NOT rush early because it is on of the Zergs greatest strengths (to build many units in short time).

In addition to this argument, I do remember players in XMP consistently complaining about the 2 minute game. It wasn't restricted to new players (although theirs were the "this is no fun, this game is [insert expletive here]") but even people from the BETA were consistently complaining about it after the game's release. Even if you have two defenders from the early rush, that doesn't guarantee that the early rush is taken care of.

As always my concern about this issue is it's effect on the droves of possible new players. (And I always enjoy playing the Devil's own Devil's advocate )

 

[NRK]

By The Way, there are rushes for arties in XMP All The Time, not the only first rush and everyone going to play midfied after that. Also i can imagine players camping in enemy base and waiting for Artifact nodes to go online. That not looks right.

The best defense against rush is rush. Thats what we see in public servers. And the team which has at least one defender has better chances to win.