Physical Unreal Tournament Copies?

[Hellkeeper]

Deck and Morpheus are remakes, not only that but deck17 was released prior to ut2004 as ut2003 map even with jumpboots if you didn't know. And by the same author of course.

Irrelevant, they're still stock UT2004 maps which were not stock UT2003 maps. If you want to go this way, most, UT2003 maps were released in Unreal Championship.

Hourences maps are a bit on the brighter side but I am not really a fan of Rankin all that much. Its quirks can get old rather fast sometimes. Many other maps, maybe unknown to you, were beta ut2003 maps which didn't make it to the game.

I don't consider Hourences maps to be "brighter". They are mostly bland industrial maps. They actually are among the ones lacking variety. I don't like Rankin myself. I know many UT2004 maps were UT2003 maps which didn't make the cut.

But the rest is really bad imo. Albatros, while a playable map, it's not something really innovative either but its a decent 1 on 1 i suppose.

Albatross has a unique theme. It's average in terms of gameplay, but it's a fresh thing to look at.

I like Antalus because it's mostly outdoor/cave and the layout isn't that symetric and provides for some varied fun. It doesn't have that much going on but it's certainly a variety that doesn't feel the same.

I agree with that. It's nice to have a purely natural DM map. In terms of gameplay, I don't believe it's that interesting however. Now, I'd also remind you that UT2004 has DM-DesertIsle...

However I really dislike ut2004 dm raw gameplay, everything got nerfed and i could only enjoy it with tons of mutators, can't say the same of ut2003 dm.

Well here I fully agree. I'm not as extreme as you are, however, I don't think UT2004's DM is unenjoyable, I like it and I play a lot of it. But yes, UT2003 has something more and has better sensations out of the box IMO (it feels faster, the weapons sounds are different and, I think, better, damages are not the same, etc.)

As for Gael, that's a Morbias like map, right? Well, it serves its purpose well. Oceanic as a map got severaly nerfed during developement and is somewhat bland but it's still not as bad as most of these random dm maps in ut2004 that i can't even recall their name..

Morbias sucked. Gael sucks. Oceanic is in my top3 of the worst stock maps in any UT game (the top1 being, incidentally, TrainingDay, another UT2003 map, remember how awful that one was?). It's ugly, its layout sucks, it feels like it has scale problems, etc. Even the most uninteresting UT2004 maps don't have these problems, they're at least competently done. And how can you blame them: they had more time to build them, and by 2004, they had a perfect grasp of their enginen while you can see in some UT2003/UC maps how they were still more or less experimenting. And yes, there are some UT2004 maps that are absolutely awful, unimaginative and uninteresting, I got names, Trite, Idoma, Irondust, Spirit, you name it. But you also have Desolation, Hyperblast2, Gestalt (another one which was planned for UT2003 but didn't make it in time). The idea that UT2004 lacks variety in either visuals or map styles is ludicrous, even if you strip it of all UT2003 maps.

So yeah, UT2003 has SunTemple, Osiris2, Face3, Flux2, Plunge, etc. That doesn't mean it doesn't have its share of shit. And UT2004 has quite a nice pile of shit on its own. Doesn't change the fact that it has loads of awesome init.

 

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

Morbias type maps are suited well for certain matches but it's a bit bland with bots, however I had lots of fun with one or two players for pure rocket deathmatching there(a bit funny considering that originally morbias wasn't all rocket map and had few more weapons, believe automags and biorifle at least in the unreal beta).
Imo the worst ut2003 map there was was the final one in the sp ladder. That was really awful map, what was it called again, serpentine i believe. You don't just take your old quake(2) map and port it to ut2003 and expect it to work the same way. This was horrible really. And I believe this map got wedged in at the last moment during developement, the betas lacked it. Even if say, gestalt or whatever cut map was final map it would have been tons better. Speaking of Unreal Championship I never got to play it only the alpha leak which wasn't very good but was interesting in many things. The unreal champsionship maps in ut2003 were often drastically different/altered though so it didn't feel the same from what i saw.
What I meant with brighter and Hourences maps is that their gameplay wasn't all bland and the industrial theme was different than majority of other industrial maps which were shit. But yes Rankin can get quite old after a while. But you have to admit that most of the new ut2004 maps are designed almost entirely on the z axis gameplay and thus their layout seems to follow that quite a lot, making it seem really bland as the ones you mentioned for example. As for hyperblast 2 i don't like it, the music is a orchestral rape, the scale is so off and the grenade launcher feels gimmicky addition, where it would have been more suitable in other maps...

 

[Hellkeeper]

Morbias type maps are suited well for certain matches but it's a bit bland with bots, however I had lots of fun with one or two players for pure rocket deathmatching there(a bit funny considering that originally morbias wasn't all rocket map and had few more weapons, believe automags and biorifle at least in the unreal beta).

Yes, I took an extreme position for arguing purposes, I actually don't have anything against Gael and I've had lots of fun on it

Imo the worst ut2003 map there was was the final one in the sp ladder. That was really awful map, what was it called again, serpentine i believe. You don't just take your old quake(2) map and port it to ut2003 and expect it to work the same way. This was horrible really. And I believe this map got wedged in at the last moment during developement, the betas lacked it.

Oh christ you're right, that was an awful one! I'd still say TrainingDay was the absolute worst however.

Even if say, gestalt or whatever cut map was final map it would have been tons better.

Gestalt, though far from memorable, is an interesting map. I don't like it very much, but I can see the work in it. The UT2003 beta (and the UC one? Can't remember) contain the first tries at it, and it's fun to see how it evolved.
One of the problems in UT2003 was that there was no good map for duels. Hence the poor choice of final map.

Speaking of Unreal Championship I never got to play it only the alpha leak which wasn't very good but was interesting in many things. The unreal champsionship maps in ut2003 were often drastically different/altered though so it didn't feel the same from what i saw.

The UC beta is really not something you can use to judge the game. Unreal Championship was my second encounter with Unreal and it's because I liked it that I got UT2003, the first Unreal I owned. Championship is pretty similar to UT2003: the characters are the same, and almost all the maps in UC are included in UT2003, pretty much unaltered. For instance, DM-DE-Osiris2 and DM-Inferno are absolutely the same (there might be a couple of meshes which were stripped from Inferno in the 2003 version, but I can't be sure). The weapons have different (and IMO better and more UT99-like) models in UC, and are generally much more lethal.

Apart from the weapons tweaks, the main difference in UC was the species. It's something that was supposed to be included as a mutator in UT2003/2004, but the mutator actually doesn't work. Basically, Juggernauts are slower, more resistant and start with 199 health. Gen Mo Kai's start with only 80 health but move more quickly. Anubans are better at adrenaline (can't remember if they can begin a combo with less than 100 or if they just gain more adrenaline), humans are normal, nightmares have the Vampire mutator activated by default (regain health when killing opponents) and bots have 120 starting hps, are a bit slower than the others are can jump insanely high. Weapon preference was also very important but I can't remember why, and each race began with a specific weapon alongside the AR and hammer. All in all, it was a very, VERY nice branching from UT. UT2003 is basically UC streamline with normal UT. Both have advantages. If you can pick it up, give it a try

What I meant with brighter and Hourences maps is that their gameplay wasn't all bland and the industrial theme was different than majority of other industrial maps which were shit. But yes Rankin can get quite old after a while.

I agree with all this. But industrial remains industrial, a few additionnal plants and stuff can hardly hide this. I liked other things by Hourences (Torlan, Sae, etc.), but Rankin is not close to my heart.

But you have to admit that most of the new ut2004 maps are designed almost entirely on the z axis gameplay and thus their layout seems to follow that quite a lot, making it seem really bland as the ones you mentioned for example.

Which is awesome because a map without z-axis sucks. Look at training day. Of course, that doesn't mean a map with height differences is immediately good, but it's always more interesting. That's why a map like CTF-GrassyKnoll is shit to play: the zone between the bases is just a flat piece of land with hills. Run forward, and when something gets above the horizon, shoot it.

The maps with take z-axis for actual originality are things like Spirit, Trite, which are awful indeed. They feel like the most formulaic "3/4 rooms with 3/4 height levels" maps you can come up with, and I'm not sticking up for them.

As for hyperblast 2 i don't like it, the music is a orchestral rape, the scale is so off and the grenade launcher feels gimmicky addition, where it would have been more suitable in other maps...

The grenade launcher is awful indeed. As for the rest, it's a matter of taste. I liked the map and I think the orchestral remix of Go Down is among the best tunes of UT2004.

 

[KaL976]

 

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

Yes, I took an extreme position for arguing purposes, I actually don't have anything against Gael and I've had lots of fun on it



Oh christ you're right, that was an awful one! I'd still say TrainingDay was the absolute worst however.



Gestalt, though far from memorable, is an interesting map. I don't like it very much, but I can see the work in it. The UT2003 beta (and the UC one? Can't remember) contain the first tries at it, and it's fun to see how it evolved.
One of the problems in UT2003 was that there was no good map for duels. Hence the poor choice of final map.



The UC beta is really not something you can use to judge the game. Unreal Championship was my second encounter with Unreal and it's because I liked it that I got UT2003, the first Unreal I owned. Championship is pretty similar to UT2003: the characters are the same, and almost all the maps in UC are included in UT2003, pretty much unaltered. For instance, DM-DE-Osiris2 and DM-Inferno are absolutely the same (there might be a couple of meshes which were stripped from Inferno in the 2003 version, but I can't be sure). The weapons have different (and IMO better and more UT99-like) models in UC, and are generally much more lethal.

Apart from the weapons tweaks, the main difference in UC was the species. It's something that was supposed to be included as a mutator in UT2003/2004, but the mutator actually doesn't work. Basically, Juggernauts are slower, more resistant and start with 199 health. Gen Mo Kai's start with only 80 health but move more quickly. Anubans are better at adrenaline (can't remember if they can begin a combo with less than 100 or if they just gain more adrenaline), humans are normal, nightmares have the Vampire mutator activated by default (regain health when killing opponents) and bots have 120 starting hps, are a bit slower than the others are can jump insanely high. Weapon preference was also very important but I can't remember why, and each race began with a specific weapon alongside the AR and hammer. All in all, it was a very, VERY nice branching from UT. UT2003 is basically UC streamline with normal UT. Both have advantages. If you can pick it up, give it a try



I agree with all this. But industrial remains industrial, a few additionnal plants and stuff can hardly hide this. I liked other things by Hourences (Torlan, Sae, etc.), but Rankin is not close to my heart.


Which is awesome because a map without z-axis sucks. Look at training day. Of course, that doesn't mean a map with height differences is immediately good, but it's always more interesting. That's why a map like CTF-GrassyKnoll is shit to play: the zone between the bases is just a flat piece of land with hills. Run forward, and when something gets above the horizon, shoot it.

The maps with take z-axis for actual originality are things like Spirit, Trite, which are awful indeed. They feel like the most formulaic "3/4 rooms with 3/4 height levels" maps you can come up with, and I'm not sticking up for them.



The grenade launcher is awful indeed. As for the rest, it's a matter of taste. I liked the map and I think the orchestral remix of Go Down is among the best tunes of UT2004.

Yea well I meant the z axis and sharp angles/corners and general same layout. I didn't mean to imply a map should be without height differences, that's indeed bad and grassyknoll is really a bad example indeed. There were two ut2003 betas actually, one fulla nd one "demo" and both from different periods. The UC alpha was also very different to both and was more to the original UC plan and implemented the hovering vehicles actually in some maps. When I inspected the final UC disc once I found out it still had the hover vehicles inside(as opposed to ut2003 bulldog), just like the ut2003 beta had leftovers of them. I wonder if they could be put to maps if a custom map was somehow made for UC. From videos/screenshots many maps were actually altered in UT2003 from UC, Gael for example didn't have the death pit, there were many other differences in other maps and sometimes only subtle ones like different item locations.
My resentment for the orchestral go down is that imo it's a bit too pretentious and perhaps would fit into star wars but not in Unreal game, but UT2004 is rather cheesy to begin with so I suppose it does fit the particular game. And imo also the singleplayer ladder has to be the worst ut ladder in ut2004. The credits system being forced upon and stolen from ut2003 beta, the absence of onslaught in the ladder and other stuff and screwed up difficulty all make up for a bad experience. Clanlord was a bit of interesting experience but he was a completely nearly unbeatable sob and perhaps the encounter made me hate hyperblast 2 even more and having to replay and replay it again until i found a trick to "win". And of course most people get Xan or Malcolm instead of him even though he is actually the "true" and unique boss of the game while xan and malcolm are both recycles.
Also as for TrainingDay I do not count it as a proper map, I count it more as the training map like dm tutorial in ut for example. It has the same value to it, hence its name and its placement at the very very beginning in the sp ladder. But as a training/first getting used to map its actually passable when you think of it that way.

 

[BillyBadAss]

Nobody here has the Dreamcast version of UT. Incomplete...

 

[Carbon]

Nobody here has the Dreamcast version of UT. Incomplete...

Not sure what you mean...?

Also, are you really in Japan?

 

[Hellkeeper]

Gael for example didn't have the death pit, there were many other differences in other maps and sometimes only subtle ones like different item locations.

Yes, and Leviathan's first floor was flat. But these are very small changes. The Gael one was because accurate jumping with the controller was impossible, especially in split-screen.

UT2004 is rather cheesy to begin with

All Unreal games are, that's why we love them.

And imo also the singleplayer ladder has to be the worst ut ladder in ut2004. The credits system being forced upon and stolen from ut2003 beta, the absence of onslaught in the ladder and other stuff and screwed up difficulty all make up for a bad experience.

Oh my, SinglePlayer in UT2004? Really, who cares? It's more or less the same as in UT/UT2003 with different maps, it has the credit system (which was not "stolen" from the betas, but "used", unless you also think UT2004 "stole" the maps from UT2003 and the weapons from UT etc. which is ridiculous). As for onslaught, you are surely aware that bots suck in ONS. And really, who's buying Unreal for the singleplayer ladder? I don't buy UT for the singleplayer, just like I don't buy Super Smash Bros Melee for the storyline.

Clanlord was a bit of interesting experience but he was a completely nearly unbeatable sob and perhaps the encounter made me hate hyperblast 2 even more and having to replay and replay it again until i found a trick to "win". And of course most people get Xan or Malcolm instead of him even though he is actually the "true" and unique boss of the game while xan and malcolm are both recycles.

Clanlord was just a nth bot with high stats. I don't see what's so interesting. And there's no "true" boss.

Everything else, I agree with.

 

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

Not sure what you mean...?

Also, are you really in Japan?

I suppose he means that there is no dreamcast version of UT pictured in those pics.
And yes he is in Japan, he came to live there quite a while ago I believe. But if you never followed much of buf history i suppose you wouldn't know anyway.

Btw as for the notion all unreal games are cheesy, I don't love them for that (tbh i like them when they are more grim/gritty the best, hence also why the 96/97 era of Unreal seems to be thematically more close to my likings and is sad so little exists of it now) but I dislike the "bombastic cartoonish" style that UT2004 has. My values are a little different, I don't take the game only for entertainment but also see artistic and other values in it, to you it might seem foolish but that's how I am. As for Gael I believe even the ut2(003) betas had it with flat floor, meaning it got only changed during later stages of developement for PC.
You don't need to attack/defend the "stole" argument, no need to take me so literally. It's not like I am convinced they are filthy thieves, it's just the manner in which it got reused is not so nice, hence my remark as "stolen".
All the language semantics and words...makes one confused in the end.

As for Clanlord, he has a special mesh that's not shared with any other of the skaarj characters and does not appear anywhere else in the tournament while xan and malcolm do. This makes him sort of a true boss of the game indeed. This is what boss is usually about, you don't hear of him or briefly until you face him in the final battle. Of course it's a completely unfair boosted up stats bot but that's besides the point.

Also for the question who buys UT for singleplayer or botmatches, you'd be surprised how many. I knew at least two people IRL who played ut2004 singleplayer, one of them completely giving up the game solely because of it and because he belived it wouldn't be that much better if he continued to play online. He disliked the gladiator system/credits stuff and it got old for him quickly.

 

[Hellkeeper]

Btw as for the notion all unreal games are cheesy, I don't love them for that (tbh i like them when they are more grim/gritty the best, hence also why the 96/97 era of Unreal seems to be thematically more close to my likings and is sad so little exists of it now)

So the era before there was an Unreal game. Hum. Well at least you have UT3 and GOW

As for Gael I believe even the ut2(003) betas had it with flat floor, meaning it got only changed during later stages of developement for PC.

Idd, because the transition to PC allowed better movement and aim.

As for Clanlord, he has a special mesh that's not shared with any other of the skaarj characters

Except Drekorig

and does not appear anywhere else in the tournament while xan and malcolm do. This makes him sort of a true boss of the game indeed. This is what boss is usually about, you don't hear of him or briefly until you face him in the final battle. Of course it's a completely unfair boosted up stats bot but that's besides the point.

Fair point. Although I don't see how that makes him especially more deserving. The three bosses have to be unlocked, it's not really a way to distinguish between them.

Also for the question who buys UT for singleplayer or botmatches, you'd be surprised how many. I knew at least two people IRL who played ut2004 singleplayer, one of them completely giving up the game solely because of it and because he belived it wouldn't be that much better if he continued to play online. He disliked the gladiator system/credits stuff and it got old for him quickly.

I've played this game against bots almost exclusively, I understand what it means, but I can still recognize it's designed as a multiplayer game with a small campaign serving as a glorified tutorial. I would have prefered an actual tournament/championship with different levels, qualification matchs, several leagues etc, as seems to have been planned in the UT2003 demo.

 

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

So the era before there was an Unreal game. Hum. Well at least you have UT3 and GOW


Idd, because the transition to PC allowed better movement and aim.


Except Drekorig


Fair point. Although I don't see how that makes him especially more deserving. The three bosses have to be unlocked, it's not really a way to distinguish between them.


I've played this game against bots almost exclusively, I understand what it means, but I can still recognize it's designed as a multiplayer game with a small campaign serving as a glorified tutorial. I would have prefered an actual tournament/championship with different levels, qualification matchs, several leagues etc, as seems to have been planned in the UT2003 demo.

Yea well, the era of the alpha/betas which were more or less based on the original unreal plan. Different gameplay and close up melee combat and a more gritty feel, comparable to quake but very different in practice than in the actual screenshots. The era of the black automag which black clips mysteriously remained to the final game except made lower res and which had a second part of the skin which was the original sconce skin meant to be used in mine themed maps obviously. The era of the working quadshot and a stinger which was drastically different from the final version with its tarydium burning effect/explosion. Also era of at the time unfinished flamegun, era of the one eyed gasbag, white skaarj, bigman using automag like guns, a manta which can when damaged enough go actively hiding behind pillars and a high flying dragon which just flies around and who you can morph into.
GoW and UT3 are quite different style, although I don't mind UT3, I think it's a bit overdone at times with that kind of theme. Still prefer over the ut2004 themes though.

 

[KaL976]

Not sure what you mean...?

Also, are you really in Japan?

Nobody is ever sure what BBA means

& yes, he's in Japan.

 

[DDRRE]

Quite the collections people have here.

I've got all the games on Steam, but I still have the physical copies of UT2004 (the CD edition) and UT3.

 

[Carbon]

Quite the collections people have here.

I've got all the games on Steam, but I still have the physical copies of UT2004 (the CD edition) and UT3.

Smart. The Steam games take up far less space!

 

[AlteredForms]

I was unaware my thread was still going strong. Thought it was lost to time. Apologies for not being able to respond to the users who quoted me and thanks for the information.

As for UT2004, it crammed a lot more stuff into the final product, but that isn't always a good thing. If you take a good look at some of the maps, half of the additional content from Epic is rubbish and doesn't play very well. Look at the deatchmatch maps for some examples.

Overall, UT2004 was a complete package and wasn't charged at full price. However, UT2003 has a good selection of maps (sometimes a little too small) and I've had some good times there. Shame you can't play it online anymore, then again we have UT2004 to thank for that.

 

[Hellkeeper]

Shame you can't play it online anymore, then again we have UT2004 to thank for that.

Just launched it, there are still many servers and a trickle of players, it's tiny heart is still beating

 

[AlteredForms]

Just launched it, there are still many servers and a trickle of players, it's tiny heart is still beating

How do you mean? I installed the game and went straight to the server list to find it empty. Unless there's some I.P. address required to access the servers, I'm out of ideas.

 

[Hellkeeper]

In your UT2003.ini, change CurrentMasterServer=0 to CurrentMasterServer=1. For some reasons, the UT2003master1 is unresponsive while the UT2003master2 is alive.

Don't get your hopes to high though, I just connected at about 10h GMT+1, and there was a grand total of one (1) player. But in the evening, I generally see about 10 on a couple of servers.

 

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

Since when did that happen? Last time I played ut2003 online it worked straight out of the "box", not physically though. Box..physical box, physical UT copies..hmm straight out of the box.

 

[AlteredForms]

In your UT2003.ini, change CurrentMasterServer=0 to CurrentMasterServer=1. For some reasons, the UT2003master1 is unresponsive while the UT2003master2 is alive.

Don't get your hopes to high though, I just connected at about 10h GMT+1, and there was a grand total of one (1) player. But in the evening, I generally see about 10 on a couple of servers.

I'll be sure to check this out. If there's a few players online, then I can have a few matches for the sake of it. As for Unreal II, I think that's the only UT game which nobody seems to care about. The original Unreal has a small player base, whereas Unreal II hasn't.

@Leo

I bought a sealed copy of UT2003, but it was a re-release by Atari. I installed the game and check the multiplayer menu to find the list entirely empty. No servers were being shown and the refresh button didn't help.