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On Topic

Discussion in 'BuF Classics' started by Morety, Apr 25, 2000.

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  1. Sam_The_Man

    Sam_The_Man I am the Hugh Grant of Thatcherism

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    I think I'd better change my sig:

    ---------------------------------
    If anyone discovers what the On Topic thread is for, and why it is here, a moderator will instantly delete it and Loibisch will replace it with something even stupider.

    [​IMG]
    If anyone discovers what the Universe is for, and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarrely inexplicable.
     
  2. The Dopefish

    The Dopefish Active Member

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    Heh: it says "Off Topic | On Topic" up there. :)

    This is a really odd topic. How about an off topic topic for the off topic topic forum?

    -The Dopefish hates words like topic and both, because he has no idea who made them up

    [​IMG]
    The66thDopefish
    a.k.a. The Dopefish
    QuickICQ: 70291071

    "Inside jokes are cool because if you're not on the inside you have no idea what the person is talking about."
     
  3. Zaccix

    Zaccix Truth, by Banksy

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    Page 1.

    Page 2.

    Page 3.

    Page 4.

    Page 5.

    OK, now this post lists each page of the thread so far (including this one). Therefore, it could be called a microcosmic representation of the thread itself. Also, because the thread was linked to itself in page two, it also recurs from that point onwards, thus presenting the situation where, in parallel, the thread doesn't exist past page 2.

    This thread is on topic simply by being here, yet is off topic because it's on topic.

    The conclusion? I ain't no philosopher :)
     
  4. Morety

    Morety The Farterator

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    Dopefish, you say this is an odd topic? That would make it off topic. (We've also proven that even would be on topic.) You're being counter-productive you ally of Sam! We're petitioning to get this into the UT forum because it's on topic. (Sam would disagree.)

    Sam, nice take on your sig. :) I'm anxiously waiting to see what Loibisch has to say about it. LOL. The real argument is whether we've talked enough about UT to get this thread into the UT forum. Unreal Tournament is a great game and Q3 sucks. The previous sentence alone was the topic of many posts in the days when UT came out...in the Unreal Tournament thread. That sentence alone is a topic unto itself, which is worthy of placement in the higher profile forum of UT.

    Zaccix, I don't know if we'll be able to read this post, because to properly read this thread, people will be caught in the time loops, and will probably awaken to see the world running amok with talking apes named Caeser.

    Loib: You gonna let Sam get away with that signature thing of his?????????????

    lol: C'mon Loib, you can take him Sam.

    [​IMG]
    Llamas spit and poo, and not in the humourous way that monkeys do. They're dirty dirty animals.
     
  5. Loibisch

    Loibisch The Odd Member

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    Seems like my appeal has moved something...hehe :)

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>If anyone discovers what the On Topic thread is for, and why it is here, a moderator will instantly delete it
    and Loibisch will replace it with something even stupider<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Hell, I'm known for posting (and saying) stupid things...even in real life, so why not ;). Sounds funny.

    Back again to the topic (doh!):
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Therefore Unreal Universe can be _called_ a Universe without actually _being_ a universe.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Ok guy... :).
    1)Unreal Universe can be called universe without being one. But it could be an universe though it is called universe (like the universe for example). Being called a universe doesn't mean you're not one...right?
    2)The website posts only stuff about Unreal/UT and related things. So it would be a site about the universe of UT.
    3)You actually call a setting of some games the "universe" of the game (like the Battletech universe).

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>My point about swords is that you said in UT4E, objects from different times coexisted, so that was time compression.
    I say that it isn't, because of the sword and gun argument.
    Plus, you are looking at posts on this thread that were posted at different times, but that isn't time compression is it?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Huh?...from the scratch.
    You said time compression had nothing to do with UT.
    I said time compression was in UT as either the slomo command or as for example U4E4UT.
    You said U4E4UT wasn't a good example for time compression since:
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>In time compression past, present and future get mixed together.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    They do get mixed together...was my argument.
    You:
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>UT4E: So if I held a sword from a museum, made in about 1200AD in one hand, and a gun in the other, I would be compressing time?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Then I said:
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>If "I held a sword from a museum, made in about 1200AD in one hand, and a gun in the other" i would mix together stuff from different times i.e. past present and future...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Then you said:
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>My argument was that it is possible for two different objects to co-exist even if they were not made at eactly the same time.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Yeah, I guess so, like the sword and the gun. One of us wouldn't be here if it wasn't possible that stuff (i.e. people) from different times (i.e. birth date) "exist" at the same time.

    And:
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Plus, you are looking at posts on this thread that were posted at different times, but that isn't time compression is it?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    You said time compression was "that it is possible for two different objects to co-exist even if they were not made at eactly the same time." So actually you said that time compression is the fact of existence of things out of different (i.e. posting) times at the same time. But I can see the thread and since it wasn't posted at "one time" it's compressed? Now you're talking $hit... :), but if you like to argue that way, I've won (since you gave me right, but I give you a chance to correct this though :))

    NEXT:
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Time is not actually slowed down when you use the slomo command, because UT is just a game, not a universe, and is therefore subject to the laws of this universe.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    But the time of the game is slowed down and since we're on a gaming forum (more exactly the UT forum) it does fit in the UT forum, right? For the universe stuff look up my post...

    Loibisch

    Do you mind me making that my sig?
    "If anyone discovers what the On Topic thread is for, and why it is here, a moderator will instantly delete it and Loibisch will replace it with something even more stupid." - Sam_The_Man


    NOTE: Edited since the quote tag used waay too much horizontal space...

    [This message has been edited by Loibisch (edited 05-23-2000).]
     
  6. Morety

    Morety The Farterator

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    It really is a cool sig. :)

    [​IMG]
    Llamas spit and poo, and not in the humourous way that monkeys do. They're dirty dirty animals.
     
  7. maxrevs

    maxrevs New Member

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    this thing is like the twilight zone!!!

    [​IMG]
    Bow down to no one, Bow down to None.
     
  8. Boom

    Boom Rumpshaking Moderator

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    Woooo, you guys have been working here. Sam and Loib, that was the most polite, intelligent, mature "argument" I have ever witnessed. You guys rock. :)

    THE SIG rules!

    And who says I am not really an explosion...

    [​IMG]

    Now let me see if I can figure out this time compression business....

    If this page is linked to another page that is linked back to...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Clan [Boom]
    The undisputed, undefeated, world champion, 1on1, UT clan.
    [Boom]Boom|PuF
     
  9. Sam_The_Man

    Sam_The_Man I am the Hugh Grant of Thatcherism

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    1)Unreal Universe can be called universe without being one. But it could be an universe though it is called universe (like the universe for example). Being called a universe doesn't mean you're not one...right?

    OK then, go to the website. Does it look like a huge expanse of space, containig hydrogen atoms and lots of other atoms formed from same? No. It looks suspiciously like a website. Therefore the chances are is that it's a website.

    2)The website posts only stuff about Unreal/UT and related things. So it would be a site about the universe of UT.

    UT is not a universe. It's either a game, or a community.

    3)You actually call a setting of some games the "universe" of the game (like the Battletech universe).

    But it's not a real universe like this one, it's just the scenario for the game.

    Time compression: Mixing TIMES together for God's holy sake! TIMES! NOT OBJECTS MADE IN DIFFERENT TIMES! TIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMES TIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMES TIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMES TIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMESTIMES

    I hope that clears that up.

    [​IMG]
    If anyone discovers what the Universe is for, and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarrely inexplicable.
     
  10. Loibisch

    Loibisch The Odd Member

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    LOL @Boom...

    Loibisch

    I would like to use that sig...hehe :)
     
  11. Loibisch

    Loibisch The Odd Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>But it's not a real universe like this one, it's just the scenario for the game.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    1)How do you define an universe? And how do you know we didn't mean an "irreal" universe by talking of an universe? We could have talked about the gaming universe of UT...
    2)How do you know the real universe is the Universe? And not the "Unreal Universe"? You say the "real" (and only?) universe out there is the universe itself. I think you're wrong with this because of gaming universes and "Unreal Universe".
    3)How can you say that only the "real" universe ("huge expanse of space, containig hydrogen atoms and lots of other atoms formed from same") counts when talking about universes?
    If you talk about a universe you could also mean an "irreal" universe (like Unreal Universe) or else "Unreal Universe" wouldn't be called universe, right?


    You said
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>My argument was that it is possible for two different objects to co-exist even if they were not made at eactly the same time.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    And that is right, so I'm right I guess (I don't want to repeat that stuff again...read it again if you don't know what I mean by this...)
    You could tell me how to compress time instead of simply saying what it is. It would greatly help my mind to see what can cause a time compression...so I could see if this existed...or if we simply are talking crap here... :), and how do you see that time compression has happened?(IMPORTANT!!! :))
    And BTW Sam:
    This time compression stuff was your idea (page 3, waaaay down):
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Anyway, this Sorcress is trying to compress time. Maybe someone lost the game, and the consequences reached the physical world.

    But maybe the physical world doesn't exist, and we are simply a Tamagotchi clone played by the characters in Final Fantasy.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    So actually you are guilty of this :).

    Loibisch

    May I have that sig? :)

    [This message has been edited by Loibisch (edited 05-19-2000).]
     
  12. Morety

    Morety The Farterator

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    Quoting myself:

    The sun is the nucleus of an atom. The planets are but the protons floating around the nucleus. The galaxy is a molecule. The universe is a cell. The Galaxy is an organism, and the Universe is a being, much like ourselves.

    Sam, can you prove that wrong?

    Universes and dimensions other than our own exist. If you can prove me wrong, please do. How do you know that by slowing down time in the UT game doesn't effect anything else? Every action causes a reaction.

    And, just so you don't lose track of what this debate is actually about, it is felt that there is enough discussion about UT in this thread that it should be moved into the UT forum.

    Planet Unreal is a part of my Universe. :)


    [​IMG]
    Llamas spit and poo, and not in the humourous way that monkeys do. They're dirty dirty animals.
     
  13. Loibisch

    Loibisch The Odd Member

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    Thanks Morety for backing me up :)...

    Loibisch

    Hah...prove THIS... :)
     
  14. Sam_The_Man

    Sam_The_Man I am the Hugh Grant of Thatcherism

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    Uh-oh - I've got a lot of counter-arguments to make - here goes

    &gt;what can cause a time compression...so I &gt;could see if this existed...or if we simply &gt;are talking crap here... , and how do you &gt;see that time compression has happened?
    Because everything goes all wibbly and weird. Play FF8 for God's sake.

    &gt;So actually you are guilty of this.
    But I hardly ever lose FF8, so that's that argument gone up in flames.

    &gt;Universes and dimensions other than our own &gt;exist. If you can prove me wrong, please &gt;do.
    In this case you have to prove that you are right, not me proving that you are wrong. You're like the person who says "God/Aliens/Ghosts hasn't/haven't been proved not to exist, therefore he/they exist".

    &gt;How do you know that by slowing down time &gt;in the UT game doesn't effect anything &gt;else? Every action causes a reaction.
    The action is you typing 'slomo x' at the console. The reaction is the game slowing down.

    [​IMG]
    If anyone discovers what the Universe is for, and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarrely inexplicable.
     
  15. Loibisch

    Loibisch The Odd Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Because everything goes all wibbly and weird.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Yeah, like in this thread...or in UT (for example with the "Strangelove" mutator, or Excessive Violence").
    So time compression (wibblyness) has something to do with UT.

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>&gt;So actually you are guilty of this.
    But I hardly ever lose FF8, so that's that argument gone up in flames.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    ??? I meant you are guilty of bringing this topic to this thread, not we...I don't care if you win or lose FF8...

    You haven't answered to a whole bunch of my arguments, so I'll bring them again! :)
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>1)How do you define an universe? And how do you know we didn't mean an "irreal" universe by talking of an universe?
    We could have talked about the gaming universe of UT...
    2)How do you know the real universe is the Universe? And not the "Unreal Universe"? You say the "real" (and only?) universe out there is the universe itself.
    I think you're wrong with this because of gaming universes and "Unreal Universe".
    3)How can you say that only the "real" universe ("huge expanse of space, containig hydrogen atoms and lots of other atoms formed from same")
    counts when talking about universes?
    If you talk about a universe you could also mean an "irreal" universe (like Unreal Universe) or else "Unreal Universe"
    wouldn't be called universe, right?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Loibisch

    &lt;waves happily&gt;


    NOTE: Edited since the quote tag used waay too much horizontal space...


    [This message has been edited by Loibisch (edited 05-23-2000).]
     
  16. Boom

    Boom Rumpshaking Moderator

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    Philosophy 101.

    A simple exercise in logic....

    The classic deductive argument.

    Socrates was a man.
    All men are mortal.
    Therefore, Socrates is mortal.

    The clasic inductive argument.

    Socrates was a man.
    Socrates was a homosexual.
    Therefore, all men are homosexuals.

    Hmmmmm, well I'll be. Who knew?

    [​IMG]
    Clan [Boom]
    The undisputed, undefeated, world champion, 1on1, UT clan.
    [Boom]Boom|PuF
     
  17. Sam_The_Man

    Sam_The_Man I am the Hugh Grant of Thatcherism

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    1)How do you define an universe? And how do you know we didn't mean an "irreal" universe by talking of an universe? We could have talked about the gaming universe of UT...

    Look in the Oxford ERnglish Dictionary. It doesn't menmtion gaming universes.
    2)How do you know the real universe is the Universe? And not the "Unreal Universe"? You say the "real" (and only?) universe out there is the universe itself. I think you're wrong with this because of gaming universes and "Unreal Universe".

    Ditto.

    3)How can you say that only the "real" universe ("huge expanse of space, containig hydrogen atoms and lots of other atoms formed from same") counts when talking about universes?
    If you talk about a universe you could also mean an "irreal" universe (like Unreal Universe) or else "Unreal Universe" wouldn't be called universe, right?

    Unreal Universe is called 'Universe because it's a stylish name. Not because it is one. And there's no such word as irreal.

    [​IMG]
    If anyone discovers what the Universe is for, and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarrely inexplicable.
     
  18. Loibisch

    Loibisch The Odd Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Look in the Oxford English Dictionary. It doesn't menmtion gaming universes.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    1)Hell I don't care about that ;), I guess there are a lot of things not mentioned in the OED (=Oxford English Dictionary), right?
    2)Try about "lag" or "packet loss", I can't imagine the OED referring to the IP protocol (packets...) correctly in the terms and meaning of TCP/IP (there are surely better examples around, but this will do for now). The OED isn't the reference when talking of gaming stuff (which is exactly what we're doing here).
    3)We're on a gaming board (or at least we try to get onto one :), that's what the discussion is about :)), so it's obvious that when we mention things we mean the gaming aspect of them, right?
    4)And besides: people I know don't look up every word in a dictionary before they start to talk (especially the people on this board, right? ;)).
    5)There something called "colloquial language", and I doubt that every aspect/point of colloquial language is mentioned in the OED.
    6)I think most people here would agree with saying something like "I've seen it on the Universe..." or similar, you often short proper names (consisting of two or more words) to one of the words. Like "Unreal Universe" to Universe.

    When I said: "How do you know the real universe is the Universe? And not the "Unreal Universe"? You say the "real" (and only?) universe out there is the universe itself." you were referring to the OED again (it seems like the OED is your god, eh? ;)).
    7) You think the OED is right in every point? So why is it being improved all the time? Because of some things are wrong (Look at number 2 or 5 for further info on this).

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>
    I said:
    8)How can you say that only the "real" universe ("huge expanse of space, containig hydrogen atoms and lots of other atoms formed from same") counts when talking about universes?
    9)If you talk about a universe you could also mean an "irreal" universe (like Unreal Universe) 10)or else "Unreal Universe" wouldn't be called universe, right?.

    You said:
    Unreal Universe is called 'Universe because it's a stylish name. Not because it is one. And there's no such word as irreal.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    You haven't answered to the most of my points (only to the last one to be exact...)
    To the irreal (the OED is your god...I'm pretty sure now ;)):
    That's why I've put it in "".
    Would it be better if I'd have talked about an "unreal" universe? That makes my argument even more obvious...
    So I guess you should answer to the other points, too (I referred to them in the quote, you have already (only) answered to 10)...).

    Oh, and since you haven't answered to my "wibblyness argument", I guess I've won that one, too :).

    Loibisch

    Thanks Boom for pointing that philosophy thing out :)

    [This message has been edited by Loibisch (edited 05-22-2000).]
     
  19. Sam_The_Man

    Sam_The_Man I am the Hugh Grant of Thatcherism

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    1) All the proper meanings are in there though. You can't expect it to include what you dream up to attempt to prove your silly arguments.

    2) It is the reference of all meanings. So if it does not talk about gaming universes, a game universe is not a universe, it is a scenario or setting.

    3) I think someone would only have to look at the rest of the post to prove you wrong.

    4) And some people I know don't think a word means whatever they want it to mean.

    5) See 1 and 4.

    6) Er... still doesn't make it a universe, whatever you shorten it to.

    7) No, it is updated because new words are being invented/passing into more common use.

    8) Because that is the proper meaning of 'universe'.

    9) If it's not a real universe (presumably what 'irreal' means) then it's not a proper universe is it?

    10) Wibblyness: If you have never played FF8, you do not know what I mean by 'wibblyness'. Everything goes wibbly, not just your vision, and you can also float through space and walk into other times. Can you travel through time on a Redeemer? No. And I haven't seen 'Excessive Violence': what is it?

    [​IMG]
    If anyone discovers what the Universe is for, and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarrely inexplicable.
     
  20. The Dopefish

    The Dopefish Active Member

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    Perpetuity is fun. :)

    [​IMG]
    The66thDopefish
    a.k.a. The Dopefish
    QuickICQ: 70291071

    "Inside jokes are cool because if you're not on the inside you have no idea what the person is talking about."
     
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