yeah in 640x480, being on fire is even worse in 3rd person, whole screen is gone mostly and then you have a character infront of you : P.
no conc jump with artifact
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It's either a bind or he shoots a grenade at his feet and kills himself anyways. Suiciding is a faster way to accomplish something that could be done in any number of other ways without it. Behindview can't be done by any other method than a bind.Eat_my_shorts said:Was just sh1t stirring tbh
But thinking about it - suiciding allows you to get places faster, recharge your weapons and health and (in xmp) to change your class...
eg. Offensive player, just had fight outside own base as tech, low on health + shield, no-one around, can't be arsed to trapse all the way across the map to a recharge thing and ooh your team-mate just hacked a deploy near the enemy base... Quel choix...
Toggle behind view lets you see behind your head but sort of restricts what is in front of you... What other advantages?
MÆST said:
I think behind view has a legitimate use in this game... what about if the ability to use it is limited to when you are a gunner with the grenade launcher selected...? But it does also have it's uses for trickjumping (never used it like this but apparently so
What is legitimate about it?Eat_my_shorts said:I think behind view has a legitimate use in this game... what about if the ability to use it is limited to when you are a gunner with the grenade launcher selected...? But it does also have it's uses for trickjumping (never used it like this but apparently so
What other game that has concussion grenades and conc jumping lets you view from third-person, let alone without being blinded?
What other game has 4 artifacts that you have to register to win? Saying it shouldn't be simply because it hasn't been done before is dumb. And just because you say so doesn't mean "behindview has been viewed as an exploit in every Unreal game." Viewed by who, you? It's also been a feature of every Unreal game. An option for server admins to disable it is fine. But if everyone can do it, it is fair game. Personally, I'd wish my opponents would run around in 3rd person the whole game.Sir_Brizz said:
Brizz posts lots of 'statistics' and 'facts', but never actually presents it (ie, posting URL or citation of a public, reliable source). When questioned about them you'll get "that was sarcasm/exaggeration/etc".
Tip: instead of saying something like "99% of..." just say "In my experience". Or insert a small, tiny "I think..." before your sentences. I assure you you'll get less enemies that way
Tip: instead of saying something like "99% of..." just say "In my experience". Or insert a small, tiny "I think..." before your sentences. I assure you you'll get less enemies that way
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then again swift, if you say "i think" or "my belief" before a sentence it will weaken any argument.
The argument only has to do with conc jumping and the problems behindview presents, so I don't see what you are trying to prove with these other "arguments". They're irrelevant. The difference in game types isn't what makes one action okay and another not okay.MÆST said:
Viewed by EPIC? You know, the people who CREATED the game? BehindView has never been turned on in multiplyer by default because the use of behindview is too exploitable. For example, in the early days of 2k3 there was a bug where when you shot the TL and switched to the camera, the behindview would work. IT removed all of the disadvantages of using the camera from far away (like worse visual, static, etc) and gave you a huge fov. Epic took it out because it was exploitable. Simply, just as exploitable as it is in this case.
In Mock Trial or Debate Competitions (or if you're talking to a smart person), he/she will pickup your 'facts' real fast and base his whole argument on how your facts are completely wrong (then sneakily introduce his own idea(s) ). You can still make a strong argument without using fictional figures (by posting real ones and explaining those) or simply by not taking a quantitative approach.
Sure NRK.
Sure NRK.
Where did I post any quantity??
Most of the time when I play with percentages and numbers I say "I would bet 90% of them..." "Probably 90% of them..." I don't remember ever saying "Exactly 90% of them..." or even "90% of them...". This isn't debate court, this is a place where expressing your opinions is OKAY. In debate court, the goal is to present you as right and the other person wrong.
Most of the time when I play with percentages and numbers I say "I would bet 90% of them..." "Probably 90% of them..." I don't remember ever saying "Exactly 90% of them..." or even "90% of them...". This isn't debate court, this is a place where expressing your opinions is OKAY. In debate court, the goal is to present you as right and the other person wrong.
Sir_Brizz said:
Luckily there's no trans camera in XMP. Like you said, that instance it "removed all of the disadvantages of using the camera from far away" ... therefore it was a bug that needed to be fixed. Someone who uses behindview in game may get the advantage of greater FOV, but there's plenty of disadvantages that pop up ... mainly that of not being able to aim worth a damn.
![[GDC]Faust](/data/avatars/s/42/42072.jpg?1424422865){kind=avatar}
Sir_Brizz said:
As I read through your posts, you basically stated one thing about conc-jumping: Due to the fact that it used the togglebehindview-command, it is an exploit and thus has to be viewed as a cheat. This is your opinion and you have got the right to say that.
In opposition to that stands the opinion that conc-jumping is something legitimate and viewed as an essential aspect of the movement in XMP.
You now want to convince those who share the second view with the fact that in UT, the 3rd-personview has eversince been looked at as an exploit because it provides the players with the advantage of an unrealistic point of view within a FPS-scenario. (To see what happens behind you is not considered being part of a FPS-game) You now claim that this is viewed by a broad range of UT-gamers, who have been pissed about that from the first day (This still needs to be proved, though). In XMP, it is not only the point of view which is altered in a way that is not suitable for a FPS, there comes the fact that one is one getting blind when using this command and shooting a grenade. Thus, the gameplay is even more violated.
You did say, though, that the conc-jump per se is not an exploit, since it's embedded into the FPS-gameplay of XMP. You just want ppl to get blinded by their own flash (correct me if i'm wrong here)
BUT you also have to listen to the arguments of the other side, which say that XMP is, 1) Not UT, thus the gameplay has to be considered as unique, not less due to the fact that UTXMP is not a Mutator nor a gametype of 2004 and thus in no way bound to the gameplay of the original UT2004, so there is no reason to alter something in its gameplay because it's not UTish. You can't blame AS for their top-down-view, either, for example. Which leads us to 2) the question wether the feature of conc-jumping is an essential part of XMP-gameplay. As this is used in XMP since its beginning and has been used in diverse scrims and leagues I can concur that it has not been seen as an exploit or cheat so far.
3) It is an action which is not to be executed by beginners because it has to be practised before used right. The beginning gunner didn't conc-jump regularly and they won't conc-jump regularly. It's in that way not a cheat, because it gives an advantage to noobs.
4) It costs health.
Well, the only point where your argumentation can be attacked is in the claim that the majority of the community stands behind your view of the command as exploit
and the only point where your opposition can be attacked is in THEIR claim that the majority of the community stands behind the view of the command as common practice.
THUS: This dispute will be solved when we know how the majority of the community thinks. But how do we know? Well, FMI leaves the choice to the server-admins to switch it off, so that this problem will solve itself over time.
Whatever....
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I already stated IN THIS VERY THREAD that there is a difference between exploiting and Cheating. It doesn't require re-examination.[GDC]Faust said:
Also, I never claimed or said that conc jumping itself was bad. But you look at any other game that has a similar technique (I'm thinking of TFC and I know there are several others) and you ill find that none of them have "blinding" on the list of things that DON'T happen to you when you conc jump.
Behindview IS AN EXPLOIT. Conc jumping is not.
If the majority of a community brushes it off, as unimportant or not exploitive in a harmful way then it being a bug/illegal is irrelevant.
ex : if all of a certain gaming community agreed, or majority that an aimbot to help aim to make game go faster or be a positive thing were to happen, it wouldn't really matter that technically or even in the eyes of OTHER games (which you have done with tfc, which is also VERY IRRELEVANT TO XMP) it is cheating.
I have used third person for conc jumping, and have never once been yelled at or accused of exploiting for doing it, because a majority of the people who have asked about it, also use it.
Thus i conclude that because apathetic attitude towards it, it doesn't matter, and hasn't mattered in XMP.
ex : if all of a certain gaming community agreed, or majority that an aimbot to help aim to make game go faster or be a positive thing were to happen, it wouldn't really matter that technically or even in the eyes of OTHER games (which you have done with tfc, which is also VERY IRRELEVANT TO XMP) it is cheating.
I have used third person for conc jumping, and have never once been yelled at or accused of exploiting for doing it, because a majority of the people who have asked about it, also use it.
Thus i conclude that because apathetic attitude towards it, it doesn't matter, and hasn't mattered in XMP.
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