no conc jump with artifact

[chipmunk]

I'm not sure if this has been discussed yet, so just in case it hasn't I have a small but very important request. Please don't allow gunners to conc jump while carrying an artifact, or at least severely hamper his ability to fly across the map with one.

Over the last week or so I've been playing alot of u2xmp almost solely as an offensive gunner, and have been intentionally conc jumping all over the place. I have come to the conclusion that it's just simply too imbalanced in its current state. Tech's can't catch up, period. Rangers can keep up to a certain point, but if a gunner uses the terrain properly for cover, the ranger's hitscan weapons are basically useless. Obviously if there's another gunner, he could also conc jump in pusuit. The thing is, that the sprint/dodge/conc key combination can be virtually impossible to pull off with any consistancy at higher pings. Therefore, at least in my experience, a low ping gunner is an unstoppable offensive force if he decides to play that way.

Anyway, I just wanted to see what everyone else thought about the idea. Discuss.

 

[Mantik]

Sort of how you cannot use the teleporter in CTF or the flag drops to the ground.

 

[iddQd]

Never seen it beeing used much but yes it makes sense to block concjump while carrying an artifact.

 

[chipmunk]

Sort of how you cannot use the teleporter in CTF or the flag drops to the ground.

exactly

it's also similar to how epic limited adrenaline usage while holding a flag in 2k4. adrenaline never should have been thought up, but that's a whole other point.

conc jumping with an artifact also reminds be of rocket boosting with 0% friendly fire in ut99 ctf. you could load up 6 rockets and shoot them at a teammate's feet. he'd then go flying across the map (with or without the flag). imagine this on a wide open map like ctf-face. the only thing to really worry about is the landing, which is also very similar to conc jumping.

 

[]Vik[]

i think there won´t be any problems with concjumping "arti-gunners" , just think about the better netcode of UT:XMP . in U2:XMP it´s possible for good rangers to snipe a concjumping gunner in the air with a ping less then 150, easily with a ping less then 120 ( ping 120 in console , not scoreboard!)
i think to talk about the sniping rangers would be more interesting , i think the sniper rifle will be like the lightning gun of UT , some leet players could get a 14/15 hit quota , that´s what i fear (just think about the sniper rifle and lightning gun , it´s much easier to hit an enemy with the lightining gun )

 

[nbk-Lei]

Over the last week or so I've been playing alot of u2xmp...

*cough* IRC *cough*

 

[Fleury14]

*cough* IRC *cough*

*cough* agreed *cough*

And when I agree with Lei...

Edit: Furthermore, Daft, it's been mentioned already that togglebehindview is out, which means if you're going to conc jump, you gotta do it the old fashioned way, throwing it out and timing the jump. If somebody can actually pull this off consistently while having people on their back chasing them, I don't think they should be penalized for it, or have it removed. Then again, I'd have to see it in action first to get a feel for how it will be.

 

[chipmunk]

yeah vik that's true, it should be easier in general for rangers to hit targets with the sniper, especially with the better netcode. so the ranger does indeed have a counter to the conc jump (as long as he can hit the gunner at least one time before he's out of range). he doesn't have many shots though, especially vs. a crafty gunner that uses cover properly.

that still leaves techs though. the assault rifle is the only hitscan weapon in his arsenal, and it's close to useless against gunners as-is. nevermind the fact that it loses accuaracy at a distance. he can shoot some primary shotgun fire at the gunner, but that won't do much damage either, especially if the shotty is toned down distance wise. the tech is pretty screwed in general if he decides to chase down that "artifact in the sky."

conc jumping definitely needs refinement, especially with an arti. just food for thought

 

[chipmunk]

oh well y halo thar kiidddies!

yeah yeah irc ok whatever soon

fleury - okay cool. I wasn't 100% sure what they were gonna do so I figured I should probably ask. I think that's a decent compromise. I'm gonna miss those "how the hell did he catch me as a gunner ?!?!" reactions though.

 

[communist]

The tech being screwed here is fine - remember he screws the other classes on a lot of other occasions
As for the conc. jumping - well I havent seen it too much and even when it wasnt a factor that really unbalanced the classes, might be due to to rather small size of the community and / or when it was used it was always without an artifact.
I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens on the public servers. Though a minor limitation from the start that could be increased / decreased with a patch over time after release. You'll know how much outcry there is going to be if they implement it in a patch later on... "ARGGG ThEY T00KZ0r 0UT TEH CONC. JUMPING!!!11! - i WiLL QUiT PLAYIGN THSI CRAP!!"

 

[FurociousFa]

daft the whole point of teamwork and xmp is that not all classes can do EVERYTHING, and diversity is ALWAYS neccesary for success.

snipers can shoot them out of the air, while tech can one hit kill anything, especially at close distances...it balances out IMO.

no one expects every class to be able to handle every situation.
ex: "why do rangers suck on defense? they have crappy shield, and need some sort of deployable weapon" they are not made for that, as techs are not neccesarily built to catch arti carriers, while concing gunners can, and sniping rangers usually do.

 

[NRK]

I have been playing as gunner recently quite a lot and the reason i swiched from ranger is because i like to be uncatchable. Not every gunner can conc jump and not everyone is used to it. I like not paying attention to any snipers near me, i just jump out of that area loosing 10% health and leaving them blind so they cant snipe me in the air. Also recently i become quite annoying arty runner, jumping over the map like crazy. Well, i kinda like such situation but i understand that it does not fit in XMP learning curve: thats too much. Seriously, successull conc jumping is harder than wall-jumping, and, as we know, wall jumping is not easy for everyone. (side note i am talking about conc jumping to DISTANCE, not up and die).

What if conc nade would cause player to DROP artifact if fired to his foot. For example gunner could cause player to drop artifact if he manages to hit him directly and artifact flies to random direction. Also, he couldnt conc jump because nade would cause him to drop artifact he is carying. That would seem logical to me.

 

[.pot.OptimusPrime]

hmmm. This must be the first time somebody gets a problem out of conc jumping. In most maps only a very little minority of people plays gunner and ever fewer do conc jumping. I don´t remember any matches in which conc jumping gunners cap all the arties. Usually the jumpers kill themselves and snipers catch them very easily anyway if they haven´t got killed by their own hands. Personally I suggest it´s the rangers that are the unstoppable "rabbits" almost impossible to kill when they decide to flee with toys.
In theory conc jumping may be a mean trick, but in theory it´s rarely used, if at all. This might be due to the fact that the pitchy noise is rather irritatinga and at least I don´t feel too safe when I fly blindly to whatever direction.

*END OF CONVERSATION*

 

[[LNS]ICovetYourChild]

keep it he same with togglebehind view

 

[NRK]

hmmm. This must be the first time somebody gets a problem out of conc jumping.

This problem is already removed i think, because FMI wont let you be not blinded in 3rd person view (i think)

In most maps only a very little minority of people plays gunner and ever fewer do conc jumping.

You didnt see the game today in Alpha server, that was really elite gunner batle.

.. and at least I don´t feel too safe when I fly blindly to whatever direction.

I am talking about REAL exploiting (yes i say its exploiting), it is having key setting binded to middle mouse button. That works this way: you click middle button, it toggles behind view and switches to 3rd weapon. You look down, hold sprint, dodge right while still going forward, fire conc nade down after the same amount of time it takes to double tap to dodge, and WOW, you are flying. An yes, you ARE NOT blind. You release middle button and it switches back to weapon 1 and toggles behind view to first person. At least thats the way i do it.

 

[GotBeer?]

Hmm, I always dodge forward when I conc jump. Do you lose any distance dodging to the side while still running forward? Also, I have togglebehindview bound to 'b', but do everything else manually. Get it right about 9 out of 10 times now, even with my 250 ping.

From the way it sounds for UTXMP, guess I'll have to learn to time the conc nade jumps. And that factor there I feel pretty much negates the "advantage" the arti-running gunner theoretically has: Fire concussion grenade and wait for timer without getting shot, then jump and hope you don't get blinded or sent straight up by being .0001 secs off, then hope you don't get sniped out of midair.

Editted because I forgot about landing.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

Behind view is and has always been considered an exploit in every Unreal Engine game. The reasons it was left in XMP are beyond me.

 

[Tenacity]

Why why why this game is already so balanced.

If there were some exploit or class that dominates then I think that everyone would be exploiting the same exploit and everyone would be playing the same dominating class.

The current balance of xmp is part of what makes it work so well. I think some ppl just can't stand the whole teamwork concept and that is why they want to mess with the balance.

I almost think that they don't like the balance and are trying to figure out a way to make the class they prefer get an edge.

I have tried conc jumping and could never get the hang of it and gave up. It is a learned skill and I am impressed by those who took the time to perfect it so I say leave the conc jumpers alone. They have earned the right to use it.

If we take away the ability of a gunner to conc jump with arty then maybe we need to hobble the ranger a bit also like take away the rangers ability to snipe while in the air (only if he is carrying an arty of course).

 

[.sl0w.]

In ut2k4 there is a serverside option to allow behindview or not - imho that solves the problem. You still can concjump, but you get blinded and dont know where you land etc. Theres no real need to allow behindview ingame...

 

[JaGo]

hmmm. This must be the first time somebody gets a problem out of conc jumping. In most maps only a very little minority of people plays gunner and ever fewer do conc jumping. I don´t remember any matches in which conc jumping gunners cap all the arties. Usually the jumpers kill themselves and snipers catch them very easily anyway if they haven´t got killed by their own hands. Personally I suggest it´s the rangers that are the unstoppable "rabbits" almost impossible to kill when they decide to flee with toys.
In theory conc jumping may be a mean trick, but in theory it´s rarely used, if at all. This might be due to the fact that the pitchy noise is rather irritatinga and at least I don´t feel too safe when I fly blindly to whatever direction.

*END OF CONVERSATION*

I'm guessing you have never EVER played with vD_Zaknafein.
He uses conc jumping to both RUN artifacts as well as run
RANGER artifact carriers down. With GREAT ease I might add.

Let him get 10 feet away from the node after stealing an artifact
and you'll never see him again...no matter what class you are. I
dare say you would be hard pressed to catch him in a RAPTOR.

The reason it's not that big a problem right now is because
on average there are 25 to 30 players playing at any given
time and many of them haven't reached that skill level, ie. NEW.
And in terms of skill, there's no doubt it takes time to learn
to conc jump and be proficient with it, but honestly, it's NOT
that hard.

If conc jumping had stayed the way it was, I guarantee you'd
have a problem with it in terms of artifact running.



Oh and... HI DAFT!!!!!!!!!!!!! <3!!!!!! Get you @ss on IRC!!!!