New mutator to protect spawns?

[NTKB]

i figured out another way to protect spawn camping, if the sniper actors range cant be increased to actually cover the area serverside, or by mappers {this is assuming editing the maps for the spawn camping would be a lot of work}, you could have something akin to Random Team Spawn occur when it 'detects' someone is killed at or in thier spawn area, then you would get alternate spawning in another safe area in the defenders/attackers spawn areas.
Would that be possible?

Because, to be honest, im really tired of my limited respawns being freakin wasted trying to get the lame people who just live to camp your spawn areas and ruin the flow and fun of the game, i feels its a SERIOUS inhibitor to enjoying the game, thus far aside from some weapon things, its my only legitimate 'bitch' about 2.9.
To use a more youthful euphemism......its lame and i'm REAL tired of gettin 'gayed' at spawn

Bush Ive decided from now on when I play a map like chemical threat where the spawns are camped im going to just sit there prone waiting for the campers to come. When they do im gonna put a burst of 5.56mm NATO in there asses over and over. People need to do this more and more so camping becomes less "profitable."

 

[randomas]

On chemical threat I think it's more a question of tactics. The initial spawn location is not secure but it's supposed to be that way, you need to secure the south side of the factory. It is also a great postion to sit and snipe at the roof. I'm concerned about maps like pankisi and skopje where the game can be killed by someone just sitting there and poping a cap in your brain before you even know you're spawned ...

I'm still for the immortality system usually soldiers don't come out of nowhere into existance and know their bearings and a brief immortality moment would do just that, but it should be limited to the spawn area and aborted if you start shooting.

 

[NTKB]

On chemical threat I think it's more a question of tactics. The initial spawn location is not secure but it's supposed to be that way, you need to secure the south side of the factory. It is also a great postion to sit and snipe at the roof. I'm concerned about maps like pankisi and skopje where the game can be killed by someone just sitting there and poping a cap in your brain before you even know you're spawned ...

I'm still for the immortality system usually soldiers don't come out of nowhere into existance and know their bearings and a brief immortality moment would do just that, but it should be limited to the spawn area and aborted if you start shooting.

woops you are right. I didnt mean that map, I meant Refinary. Sorry for the mistake.

 

[Zundfolge]

Seems to me that protection of spawn areas is one of those "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" things.

Only change I would make is the ability to change the sniper actor to an M2-50 actor as you get closer to the enemy spawn point.

 

[Bushwack]

I hope someone is coding something, im damn near ready to quit playing altogether, im so tired of getting fagged by someone who thinks kills=skill and laming me at spawn, im ready to stop playing this altogether, it aint fun anymore.

oh, and bump

 

[NTKB]

Bushwack in all fairness, can you do a demorec next time to have some proof of what exactly is going on? Outright killing somone when they appear as a spawn will NOT be tolerated on GD. But killing you after you walk out the spawn building or area, which includes rounding even that first counter on Araboutpost is acceptable. As long as you arent killed when you appear or just stand where you appear its not spawnkilling dude...

 

[keihaswarrior]

Bushwack in all fairness, can you do a demorec next time to have some proof of what exactly is going on? Outright killing somone when they appear as a spawn will NOT be tolerated on GD. But killing you after you walk out the spawn building or area, which includes rounding even that first counter on Araboutpost is acceptable. As long as you arent killed when you appear or just stand where you appear its not spawnkilling dude...

I agree, "0mfg spawncampar!1" gets thrown around waay too much. Spawn camping is only when you are killed where you stand within seconds of spawning. If you take 1 step, attempt to take aim, or are even there for more than about 10 sec, then I say you are a prime target.

All these cries of spawncamping are ridiculous IMO. I play MORE THAN ANYONE HERE, and I barely ever see actual spawn camping. It has only happened to me a handful of times. Sure it is frustrating to die from a nade as soon as you spawn, but that's only happened to me maybe 3 times. Considering that I have spawned 100's of times, I don't think that is anything to cry about.

IF someone makes a mutator it should give player's invulnerbility for 10 sec or until they move, change position, or fire (whichever comes first).

 

[Beppo]

... All these cries of spawncamping are ridiculous IMO. I play MORE THAN ANYONE HERE, and I barely ever see actual spawn camping. It has only happened to me a handful of times. ...

Well I don't think that you play more than anyone here but no need to proof me wrong

So, I can understand the spawncamping cries and sometimes it is real spawncamping out there. But I would not limit it to the first meter generally. If people position themselves so that they can snipe into the spawn area and kill guys directly then this is spawncamping/killing. If guys nade a spawnarea with rolling nades or 40mm then this is spawncamping/killing. If guys fire into the tents on Skopje then this is spawncamping/killing. If guys position themselves directly next to the attacker spawn in Skopje (house entrance and humvee) then this is spawncamping/killing. Everything that doesn't allow one team to at least move a bunch of meters (not dozens) to react or recognize a 'critical' situation is 'unfair' and most times very close to spawncamping/killing. Placing yourself right next to a spawns 'exit' like the stairs on CubanDawn is ok IMO cause you can find a way out of this most times and you have a chance to avoid the direct contact.

So, however you define it... if it happens and it starts to annoy you then speak up. Use the say command and tell others that ie a guy with a minimi is firing at the tent in Skopje. Or someone else is throwing rolling nades into the attacker spawn area in Tuscany or whereever. Most times the other team or the guy responsible will react and after a little chit chat the discussion either ends with the guy stopping the 'cheap' playing style or being kicked by his own team.
That's how things worked out on the servers I played and kicking was only used once if I remember it correctly.

Beppo

 

[Bushwack]

Id do a demorec, if i knew how, but my the time i get calmed enough to do a demorec, they either leave, or arent ****ing doing it anymore.
I'm not going to name any names, you tards know who you are who thinks its cute to do the crap im bitching about, im above slinging mud or turning this into some personal vendetta or flame war, especially on these boards.
Either someone fixes it, or they dont, if they do i'll play more, if they dont, well, i'll play something else that even remotely would be more fun than losing 3 of my 5 spawns getting fagged in my spawn area.
My personal alternative, im going to leave game, change names, come back in and repeatedly TK thier sorry butts until either they leave, or i get my ISP banned for doing so, its that bothersome, and already to the point where, I, being somewhat of an INF vet, am so close to uninstalling INf altogether, it aint even funny

 

[Keganator]

Why not use Khutan's protected spawn mutator? It makes it so if someone about to spawn, and that spawn is viewable by an enemy, then another spawn spot is selected...until there are no more to select. That'd probably alieviate many problems that people are facing.

 

[Bushwack]

All these cries of spawncamping are ridiculous IMO

considering the source.....

I play MORE THAN ANYONE HERE, and I barely ever see actual spawn camping..

Not everyone plays under the same name all the time either, so you have more free time than other people, big deal...assumptive at best, probably true though...i wish i had no girlfriend, no 5 year old and no job so i could play INf all the time but i live in the real world...

Considering that I have spawned 100's of times,..

And to your 100's of times spawning, ive spawned tens of thousands, and in those tens of thousands of times, i can honestly say that i never got lamed as much as i have in the month or so since 2.9 was released. Too many regular players that arent new to the community and should know better are 'dumbing' themselves down to the level of the L33T CS kiddies that currently are learning to play OUR way...guys, just because THEY do it, sure as hell dont mean its ok for YOU to try and get away with doing the same sh*t as people who dont know any better yet....

... I don't think that is anything to cry about.

Yeah thats EXACTLY what im doing, crying......big phuckin tears, all day because retards are laming my favorite game to the point of it NOT being my favorite game anymore...

Look guys, im not asking for a rewrite of 2.9, all i want is a small fix or addition of a mutator that fixes this problem, when most of the community wasnt even playing 2.86 anymore, there were a few of us that still stuck it out and played WHAT WE HAD, and not WHAT WE HOPED AND LONGED FOR,providing one of the lowest ping servers, and we never criticized or begged, or naysayed the Dev team in any way{look it up, i bought the CD and the Tshirt[even if the damn thing is too small], i'd say that gives me the right to voice my concerns here, and hopefully someone will listen, BUT, noone is, thus far. Instead of telling me to prove it, etc, why dont you LISTEN, TAKE MY WORD, and then DECIDE to suggest *I* do anything about it?
NT how many times have you seen me under the +BB+Bushwack name get honked off this last week and leave the GD server? Then i also play under 4 other names {not to hide, but to watch unhindered the BS that most people are missing so i KNOW what im posting on here} which also usually ends up in me leaving disgusted and frustrated...BTW its not just the GD server, its ALL of them. {trust me, im not hard to spot, just watch the PING, its always HIGH}

Thats about all i can say, and thats all i can ask, either you fix it, or you dont, not much else to say is there?

Yes, 2.9 is a different game than 2.86 was, vastly different, and superior in many ways, i know the Dev team put thier blood sweat and tears into getting it out, its NOT unappreciated, what i dont appreciate is having my word questioned when all i have ever cared about was making THIS GAME better, whether through a mutator, or by additions or through suggestion.





That is definitely ALL....


BW out!

 

[DarkBls]

Doesn't spawn points already automatically defended in some map ? Try Island. When you are defender and you go directly near the chopper: Inf says you are leaving the objective area and you are shot by bullets. Furthermore the chopper come and start to kill you too. I think spawn killing must be a mapper problem to solve. Not the game.

 

[FieldMedic]

Doesn't spawn points already automatically defended in some map ? Try Island. When you are defender and you go directly near the chopper: Inf says you are leaving the objective area and you are shot by bullets. Furthermore the chopper come and start to kill you too. I think spawn killing must be a mapper problem to solve. Not the game.

To update a map should mean to modify it , so
-another big download for the "updated map" , i dont think that the casual player will appreciate when joining a server to download a map he thought to already have and had no bug .
-someone said , some time ago, that changing something can lead into new bugs , so if a map play very well without bugs , maybe you shouldnt update it.

That is why i think a very simple (without useless "eye candies" feature) mutator that can give you during 2/3 sec (according to the wish of the server admin) some kind of invincibility at spawn , giving you enough time to move out the line of sight of a spawn camper without having time to use this invicibility to abuse other players yourself (i think especially about skopje map there , perfect example where the defender spawn zone can be abused , and has already been abused)

 

[Excelsiore]

I personally think it's more of a map problem than a gameplay problem. Mappers have the tools to prevent spawn camping, ie sniper actors, but in my opinion they have been used much too conservatively.

For the official & DS maps it doesn't seem like the teams did much testing where the main of objective of the test was to spawncamp, and thusly figure out how to prevent it.(but this is just an opinion of how it seems after having played the maps)

Maybe someone could make a mutator that just adds units to the warning and kill radius of the sniper actor, but it would have to be map specific and not universal?

 

[Fat Marrow]

Maybe someone could make a mutator that just adds units to the warning and kill radius of the sniper actor, but it would have to be map specific and not universal?

Tricky, as a lot of the spawn camping (particularly on ReactorSector46, despite my best efforts to avoid it) arises from people nading from behind cover / round a corner (where there is no line-of-sight to the sniper actor), so increasing the radius won't help.

 

[yurch]

The majority of 'spawn camping' kills are probably done by grenade, which does not require LOS or the campee even to be visible. The only viable way I see is an invulnerablity period. None of these silly firing or movement rules, give them a few seconds to get the hell out of there and into somewhere safe... or into firing range of anyone stupid enough to be close. Optionally disable thier trigger if you have to.
Hell, make the period long enough and you won't get anyone willing to get NEAR the spawn. It'll most likely break a few maps, though.

 

[NTKB]

Bushwacks complaint is legitimate and I have seen him leave frustrated. He never leaves pissed from an honest kill...

I suggest in the future that either mappers make the spawn points totally protected by walls and or invisible collision hulls even if its unrealistic. This would prevent further spwan killings on future maps. Bush if it makes you and happier know that on the maps im working on now theres no way you can be spawn killed. Trust me.

 

[Beppo]

... For the official & DS maps it doesn't seem like the teams did much testing where the main of objective of the test was to spawncamp, and thusly figure out how to prevent it.(but this is just an opinion of how it seems after having played the maps)...

The sniper actor was developed 'later' than most maps were. So most if not all maps had their outlines already at the time the sniper actors were added. We tested this all a lot, moved spawn points for weeks, tweaked the radii of the sniper actors, added block actors and sometimes even added new BSP with the risk to get new BSP holes aso.

So, we did a lot of testing and the current setups of the maps were the 'best' possible. Sure, Skopje is not the best example but the design of the map doesn't leave much variants to test out nor allows to block the routes for the enemy team near the spawns cause this would ruin the map then. BSP-wise this map was hard on the edge already and adding new BSP to allow a new spawn area setup was too late and would only blow up the whole thing.

In ArabOutpost I personally added the defender tunnels and their gates, added the area behind the buildings for the attackers, placed a bunch of block actors and deco palm trees there too aso aso to get it much more 'secure' to spawn there and making it harder to allow direct firing or throwing nades into the spawn area. But you cannot make it 100% secure.

So, designing a new map with the spawncamping directly taken in mind right from the start can 'probably' get around this problem. But who can really say that there is not one little spot somewhere in the map that ie a sniper can use and look directly into a spawn area... or that a 40mm fired in this or that angle can not pass all your obstructs and blows up directly next to someones spawnpoint... or that a rolling nade (that were added later in the development process too as you can see) can manage to get to the spawn point if thrown in a special way... or that someone can fire even thru a wall or edge of a building ... or even the addition of new weaponry and ammunition like yurchs cool new 40mms that allow a little 'kill around the corner' scenario. Many many things that need hours and hours of testing to get noticed, found and maybe fixed.
Some of our beta testers played hours and hours just trying to get to places that they should not get too. Ie check out Ruin or Stalingrad... the testers managed to somehow get on some of these walls by jumping in the best jump'n'run game manner that even Mario could get jealous to then let it be fixed by the mappers.

So, even if a map is almost perfect spawn 'protecting' wise some skilled players can find a way around this. So, everything depends on the 'will' of the folks playing. If someone wants to use 'cheap tactics' then he will... till the other side will complain and someone will watch him more closely till he agrees on not doing this any longer cause else he will be vote kicked.

I can only say this again... if I or others had problems during the matches I took part then it was normally cleared up within a minute or two. And this 'just' by speaking up using the say command.

 

[MP_Lord_Kee]

Early morning so this might not be the best idea but just thought of something. How about that nades don't explode if landing within the sniper actor radius? That would perhaps reduce the worst case spawn camping. I don't think anyone would go around with a nades only loadout in this case. (sadly I have seen nades only loadout online, thankfully only a couple of times).

Lately I have not witnessed that much spawn camping althou still I often see defenders rush very far towards the attackers, something I personally dislike. I prefer to take my time, set my but in some sweetspot and let the attackers get into my LOF

//Kee

 

[Bushwack]

still wont stop them from camping you with thier firearms in your spawn, but not a bad idea LK.