Netcode.
- Thread starter edhe
- Start date
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EPIC codes net codes like old people make love.
All I can hope is that they fix their ass projectile issues. DUD rox for life. Common it's an epic games feature.
All I can hope is that they fix their ass projectile issues. DUD rox for life. Common it's an epic games feature.
Actually, I don't remember the projectile bug being in Unreal, but then again, I haven't played Unreal DM online in years. But yeah, it's not an Epic game without rockets and flak not doing any damage. 
Or UT, which isn't an unreal 2 engine.
Sorry to busrst your ego bubble (or wait, was that a passing satellite that managed that?).
fat&munchy
Sorry to busrst your ego bubble (or wait, was that a passing satellite that managed that?).
fat&munchy
Or Quake1,2,3. Or Half Life. Or Doom.edhe said:Or UT, which isn't an unreal 2 engine.
Sorry to busrst your ego bubble (or wait, was that a passing satellite that managed that?).
fat&munchy
Just because YOU PERSONALLY (not you edhe) haven't experienced the problem doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I've seen it on every one of those games.
Half-life definitely had 'issues' as soon as the pings reach certain limits as well.
I can definitely recall seeing 'dud rockets' in Half-life/TFC ... however most servers pinged well below 100ms on average (filter set to 150ms ping max tended to result in dozens of servers)
The only reason a lot of players haven't seen such issues in those games is because there's tons of servers so the risc of running into a high-ping/crappy server is a lot lower (and in case of CSS/HL2 practically zero).
I can definitely recall seeing 'dud rockets' in Half-life/TFC ... however most servers pinged well below 100ms on average (filter set to 150ms ping max tended to result in dozens of servers)
The only reason a lot of players haven't seen such issues in those games is because there's tons of servers so the risc of running into a high-ping/crappy server is a lot lower (and in case of CSS/HL2 practically zero).
Let the netcode discussions continue. Nothing is more funny hearing people discuss Netcode, when they can't even code. It's kinda like reading the Sunday comic's.
who says those debating can't code?
brizz I call FOS on you, you preach the praises of your views with the frenzy of a religious nutjob
Quake games didn't have the projectile bug, only unrealengine 2 games do. The engine is also famous for being utter **** for netcode and gameplay. But it looks pretty and gives good fps when cranked so people love it. Yet even on LAN you get dud shots.
Preach on brotha man
brizz I call FOS on you, you preach the praises of your views with the frenzy of a religious nutjob
Quake games didn't have the projectile bug, only unrealengine 2 games do. The engine is also famous for being utter **** for netcode and gameplay. But it looks pretty and gives good fps when cranked so people love it. Yet even on LAN you get dud shots.
Preach on brotha man
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I'm not a programmer? News to me...$MP$-Smurfzilla© said:
f&m I don't give two ****s about what you think. Every Quake game from Quake 1 has had dud projectiles. The only difference is the tolerance level. The Unreal Engine is more sensitive to packet loss than the Quake engine is.
You can't debate netcode when you don't even know how to code it because of this exact reason. EVERY game that can be played over the Internet will experience dud projectiles. It's just a fact af networking. CliffyB commented on it several times, and on the mods list Steve Polge and him have explained exactly what the problem is. It would happen on EVERY game. It doesn't matter how good the "netcode" is.
Get off it. I call n00b on you
Brizz, if UT2004's net code was so bad as fat&muchy claims it to be, then I should have never been able to play it before I got my cable connection, huh?
fresh&minty being a whiny m0 again I take it?
I'm pretty sure there was a major Quake 3 game (possibly CPL, I'm not 100% sure), that involved a dud shot which would have won the player the match. Not too sure, but it was definitly Quake3, and it definitly involved a dud shot. I don't play Quake3, but I know from people who do that you can get dud shots in the Quake series as well. They're less common than in UT, but they do happen.
As for the netcode, as long as it's stable and it works, then it's all good in my book.
I'm pretty sure there was a major Quake 3 game (possibly CPL, I'm not 100% sure), that involved a dud shot which would have won the player the match. Not too sure, but it was definitly Quake3, and it definitly involved a dud shot. I don't play Quake3, but I know from people who do that you can get dud shots in the Quake series as well. They're less common than in UT, but they do happen.
As for the netcode, as long as it's stable and it works, then it's all good in my book.
I think the prediction method is an interesting one, I'm becoming familiar with it's use in HL2. Anyone who's played a more bizzare instance of 'netcode' like the one Descent3 defaults to (Imagine a game where every shot is a potential 'dud' - there is no shot delay or prediction of any kind for the client, and this includes visual effects) can appreciate the things that even UT99 does to resolve discrepancies.
The prediction system certainly has potential in shooting-accuracy-first based games like CS, HL, CoD, or 'Realism' games. Action games with an emphasis on dodging projectiles are probably better off without the system; players won't appreciate having less time to dodge low-velocity projectiles. Especially if the max ping that the prediction kicks in is raised.
If 'prediction' is to be applied to hitscan weapons or not is probably up for debate, personally I'd say no for UT.
As for the 'dud' issue, I'd be seriously impressed if any game ever managed to eliminate the problem without full-on clientside hit detection - and that would only solve it from one end, Shooter or Shootee.
The prediction system certainly has potential in shooting-accuracy-first based games like CS, HL, CoD, or 'Realism' games. Action games with an emphasis on dodging projectiles are probably better off without the system; players won't appreciate having less time to dodge low-velocity projectiles. Especially if the max ping that the prediction kicks in is raised.
If 'prediction' is to be applied to hitscan weapons or not is probably up for debate, personally I'd say no for UT.
As for the 'dud' issue, I'd be seriously impressed if any game ever managed to eliminate the problem without full-on clientside hit detection - and that would only solve it from one end, Shooter or Shootee.
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Brizz,
I know you code. Aenubis is my roommate. Evenground is running on my server at the moment. I appreciate the work. I'm sure you appreciate the humour, that I was commenting about.
-smurf
I know you code. Aenubis is my roommate. Evenground is running on my server at the moment. I appreciate the work. I'm sure you appreciate the humour, that I was commenting about.
-smurf
yurch said:
Yeah, there's the post I was looking for. I was wondering when the realism guys were going to pick up on this one.
Me personally, I think latency makes a decent abstract substitute for environmental factors (wind, humidity, barometric pressure, rifle's got gunk all over it, etc. etc. etc.) that can't practically be coded into a game. I can see how others might call BS on that, though.
Well, from a realistic gamer's standpoint you could now theoretically code accurate ballistics and other jazz and not have lag screw it all up. After all, what's important in this type game is the accuracy of the simulation for the shooter. It's not like the other guys are gonna be watching and dodging the bullets.
It doesn't eliminate lag of course, a shooter with a 120 ping is going to see the guy drop at least 120ms after he shoots, but this is a visual issue that's going to be there no matter what. At least he doesn't have to lead an extra 120ms.
Of course, I can't leave well enough alone. When the client totally simulates it's own hit effects with NO delay, it's alarming how many dud hits you can get with just a few minor "changes". I'm finding small 'dud' errors with as little as 10ms ping - I say players today are probably just spoiled.
It doesn't eliminate lag of course, a shooter with a 120 ping is going to see the guy drop at least 120ms after he shoots, but this is a visual issue that's going to be there no matter what. At least he doesn't have to lead an extra 120ms.
Of course, I can't leave well enough alone. When the client totally simulates it's own hit effects with NO delay, it's alarming how many dud hits you can get with just a few minor "changes". I'm finding small 'dud' errors with as little as 10ms ping - I say players today are probably just spoiled.
Did anybody stop to think that maybe UT Envy will have it's own version of enhanced netcode? I would much rather have that than the old UT2004 netcode, and the new UTComp "enhanced netcode" (even though it's not really enhanced netcode). Not to mention, half the internet connections out there will be faster by the time UT Envy hits. This thread is complete paranoia. :S Carry on.
McTank said:
Eh... I dunno if it'll happen that fast. But thankfully, yes, it's finally starting to happen.