1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Two Factor Authentication is now available on BeyondUnreal Forums. To configure it, visit your Profile and look for the "Two Step Verification" option on the left side. We can send codes via email (may be slower) or you can set up any TOTP Authenticator app on your phone (Authy, Google Authenticator, etc) to deliver codes. It is highly recommended that you configure this to keep your account safe.

Netcode.

Discussion in 'Unreal Tournament 3' started by edhe, Apr 15, 2005.

  1. edhe

    edhe ..dadhe..

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2000
    Messages:
    3,284
    Likes Received:
    0
    With the advent of UTComp's 1.6 netcode that has lots of people creaming, and others worrying, what will happen with Envy?

    Will they stick to the old fashioned buggy netcode that forces newstart players to relearn the game completely due to leading their or will Envy be on the receiving end of brand new, properly developed netcode that will make Online gaming seem like Instant Action (up to a point).

    Oh yeah.. and think they'll finally get rid of the 'dud projectile' bug? ;)

    Imho it will make the transfer of players from SP into MP smoother, and probably make the community more global and, because it's built into the game vanilla style, nobody will get to moan about it being bad or good.

    No offence to the UTComp Dev, but putting a multimillion pound company onto the idea will surely bring better results.
     
  2. Tournament0

    Tournament0 Guest

    I think it will be better than UT2004's Netcode, but, it might not make a difference. :hmm:
    There will still probably be bugs somehow.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 16, 2005
  3. T2A`

    T2A` I'm dead.

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2004
    Messages:
    8,752
    Likes Received:
    0
    So you'd rather have Epic redo all the networking across the planet? Sounds good.

    Making it more like IA would be great, but there needs to be a way around the high pingers having more of an advantage. I've never actually seen it in action, but Raffi, Brizz, et al, say that you have an exponentially greater chance of hitting someone with a high ping under UTComp's netcode.

    I haven't seen these things that people complain about with UTComp's netcode at all. Granted, I don't have too much experience with it, but the games I've played on it went much smoother than UT2004's netcode. Hell, just yesterday I was playing some TAM on ViperBU (non-UTComp) and sent a flak shell at Raffi. He was pinging 36ish, I was 45-52ish, and my flak shell totally whiffed and went right by him, yet he gibbed as if it were a direct hit. Another time, same map, I sent two rockets straight into Skold's face and he shrugged it off like it was nothing. People complain that everything screws up under UTComp's code, but in my experience more crap goes wrong with the default code. Sure, I have seen some dead lightning shots, but I'd rather a lightning shot go bad than a precisely-placed flak shell any day.
     
  4. m&ms

    m&ms Melts in your mouth, not in your hand.

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2003
    Messages:
    1,179
    Likes Received:
    0
    T2A, utcomp netcode doesn't help any of those problems.
     
  5. spineblaZe

    spineblaZe VFX Extraordinaire

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    2,423
    Likes Received:
    0
    Erm, UT2004's default netcode is rock solid. Having a high ping to servers has nothing to do with the default netcode, and I know the dud projectile bug has nothing to do with the default netcode either, because I've experienced that offline also.
     
  6. edhe

    edhe ..dadhe..

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2000
    Messages:
    3,284
    Likes Received:
    0
    :con:
     
  7. JaFO

    JaFO bugs are features too ...

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2000
    Messages:
    8,408
    Likes Received:
    0
    I hope the new game simply tells players as they join in gigantic letters :
    [sarcasm]
    If you can't hit a bloody thing and get fragged all the time it's cause your aim sucks, you don't know what you're doing and your neighbour decided to download tons of pr0n-movies and share his music-collection to the world.

    Oh ... and would you please turn off that p2p-program you're running.

    signed,
    Epic
    [/sarcasm]
    In other words :

    The best netcode in the world can't compensate for the fact that the entire ff-ing internet has not been designed to handle real-time network communication.(period)


    Other features of this new netcode would be :
    - the game dumping you as soon as you mention the amount of 'lag' in your conversations
    - doing likewise for the words : aimbot, cheater, hacker, pwned (and its variants)
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2005
  8. edhe

    edhe ..dadhe..

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2000
    Messages:
    3,284
    Likes Received:
    0
    How sensible.

    But back on topic, would people rather see the 'adjusted' idea of the utcomp netcode, or good old fashioned style UT netcode?
     
  9. Tournament0

    Tournament0 Guest

    Everyone wants it to be more like UT99.
    I don't think this is a good idea. If you want it to be more like UT99, then go and play UT99.
    This will be a new game.
    :rolleyes:
     
  10. JaFO

    JaFO bugs are features too ...

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2000
    Messages:
    8,408
    Likes Received:
    0
    No seriously. The internet just isn't suited to the kind of games we play.

    The best thing Epic (or anyone else) can hope to achieve is somehow minimize the amount of data (and perhaps use some kind of compression) combined with redundant packages for error-correction.

    In fact the best thing for a high-ping connection would be a game that runs as slow as possible with weapons that have an extremely low rate of fire.

    There's nothing that can compensate for the fact that your connection has to cross larger distances across compared to other players.
    Introducing client-side hit-prediction will only serve to shift the problem to the low-ping connections + it'll make cheating even easier.

    Anything that claims to magically fix this stuff is make-believe.
     
  11. edhe

    edhe ..dadhe..

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2000
    Messages:
    3,284
    Likes Received:
    0
    Did you actually read the post, lardass?

    Do you actually think your comment is in any way relevant to the thread? Can you even justify your opinions?
     
  12. Discord

    Discord surveying the wreckage...

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2002
    Messages:
    639
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's not clientside, JaFO. Here's something I managed to drag from the flames over on INA in a gut- wrenching feat of derring- do :eek: :


    Short version: it moves your shot back in time (serverside) by the amount of your ping. The upshot, apparently, is that it makes it easier to hit and harder to dodge.

    Seems like six of one and a half- dozen of the other to me, though I haven't played it yet. I don't think I'd want to be forced to use that. Dealing with latency is kind of part of the game... and you move a helluva lot farther in 60ms in UT2k4 than you do in CS or CoD. It's an interesting idea and I'm glad somebody was motivated to investigate, but I'd put it in the "still- too- new- to- UT- to- get- excited" category.


    And please, guys. Nowhere is it written that just because you're posting about UTComp you HAVE to flame people. I thought this was the well- behaved UT forum...
     
  13. Discord

    Discord surveying the wreckage...

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2002
    Messages:
    639
    Likes Received:
    0
    Srry for self- reply, but I find the subject interesting and that previous post was already waaay long.

    Anyhow, here's some further Q&A from the same unbearable thread... Q courtesy of yours truly and A courtesy of Boksha, who is not a UTComp dev but who makes it his business to know these things nevertheless. Probably the best secondhand source on a subject like this you could want.

     
  14. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    25,995
    Likes Received:
    75
    This is actually worse in alot of cases than client side hit detection, then.
     
  15. Kantham

    Kantham Fool.

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2004
    Messages:
    18,034
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ban UNR3AL again.

    Everything that you post must contain :hmm: or :con:

    Never satisfied and you post like unr3al , you used numbers in the ''tournament>0<<< account'' that make me about UNR3AL TOURNAMENT0 that remind me that nerd that posted 100 post in a single day.

    It is not the first time ppl blame him for his own post. And ppl here start to get Really anoyed.


    Think twice before posting. Ping is a no-problem for epic so don't blame them for that.

    Sorry for posting that in your thread Edhe.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2005
  16. JaFO

    JaFO bugs are features too ...

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2000
    Messages:
    8,408
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't know about you, but I'd rather have to lead my targets then watch bullets/projectiles travel along weird z-shaped paths and similar weird/unrealistic effects.

    I think what Epic (and any other company) should do is take the other route :
    make instant-action appear more like 'real' internet/lan-games ...

    So instead of trying to negate lag in on-line games we should be thinking of ways to add lag-like effects to off-line games.
    That would make it easier for players to practice with the effects of a 'real' on-line game.
     
  17. edhe

    edhe ..dadhe..

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2000
    Messages:
    3,284
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's pretty arse over tit. You'd want top notch performance offline, not a bogged down game that's trying to be a pain just to try to train you to go online.

    They're moving to less ping based weaponry (i hope) so maybe that'll help against those who can't fathom some latency differential. I still think if they can make a workable 'prediction client side drawing of effects' work well then that'd be a break through, on the otherhand i'd rather have raw and comprehendable good old-fashioned latency, than psuedo non-latency.
     
  18. JaFO

    JaFO bugs are features too ...

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2000
    Messages:
    8,408
    Likes Received:
    0
    I wasn't thinking of using that 'simulated' lag to all off-line games.
    I think an on-line simulator-mode does have some merit in a game that's going to have problems with lag (and similar effects), because I see no reason in trying to compensate that which can't be compensated.

    Especially for a fast-paced game like UT trying to 'predict' stuff is almost useless.
    Perhaps Epic can add minor prediction to weapons (say +/- 10-20 ms), but anything more and the risc of visual weirdness is just too great.

    There's so much happening/changing in such a short period of time that any attempt to compensate is has to take care of an enormous amount of variables in order to reduce the amount of weird effects.

    I think the only way such 'prediction' has a chance of succes is if there's a minimum amount of players, but then the data needed to transmit/receive changes becomes so little that lag becomes less of a problem as transmitting additional redundant data becomes easier ...
     
  19. T2A`

    T2A` I'm dead.

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2004
    Messages:
    8,752
    Likes Received:
    0
    I actually wouldn't mind the option of being able to simulate lag and packetloss offline. I tried a couple days ago to start a dedicated server with ucc on my computer with lag and packetloss but I couldn't get it to work. The ping was always ~16 rather than the 150 I tried to force on it.

    I suck online compared to offline, mainly because I've played offline for so long, that even with my low pings, my aim goes completely out the window in most cases. Learning to deal with ping without having to try to find a server that's playing the game you want with the right amount of people you want via a mutator or something would be great.
     
  20. Discord

    Discord surveying the wreckage...

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2002
    Messages:
    639
    Likes Received:
    0
    That would be great if it would work, but AFAIK that would just cause warping.

    Warping in online play is caused when the server predicts a high- pinger's location and sends that info on down the pipe to other clients. Then, the HPB turns out to be somewhere else entirely and the server updates instantly upon receipt of that info... et violá, the warp. Moving that prediction downstream to clients would probably just make the effect more pronounced? I dunno, but I think so...
     

Share This Page