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Movement

Discussion in 'Unreal Tournament' started by Hunter, May 12, 2014.

  1. Vaskadar

    Vaskadar It's time I look back from outer space

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    I feel that the movement speed should never exceed half the speed of projectiles. That's a major issue I had with UT2k4 and UT3, some of the weapons were far too slow (velocity-wise (looking at you, link gun primary)) to be worth anything.

    I'm pretty much in agreement that the game shouldn't be floaty at all, but it should also have some incredibly high-speed combat.
     
  2. Al

    Al Reaper

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    Am I the only one in favor of "floaty"? The 2k4 movement (dodge jumping) was perfect, IMO.
     
  3. evilmrfrank

    evilmrfrank Banned

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    I also loved the UT2k4 movement XD It may have been slightly too floaty which I think often led to it being too easy to escape combats in many instances
     
  4. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    The problem is that it had severe consequences on map design and weapon balance. Projectile/splash damage weapons were pretty much useless in 2k4.
     
  5. TWD

    TWD Cute and Cuddly

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    There was always this feeling amongst 2kx players (at least here at BU) that even though we enjoyed the movement that it was toxic to the community. Very few of us would say "well i just won't play this failure of a game without 2004 style movement". We understood that the middle ground was not under us. Hence why few of us put up a fight when they changed things for UT3. It was supposed to be more like the original so everyone should be happy. I was a little shocked when the game came out so slow and was quickly rejected.

    But to 2004's credit they fixed a lot of problems and gimmicks from UT99 as well. That's ultimately the dichotomy. The UT99 players don't want to fix its problems.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2014
  6. Arnox

    Arnox UT99/2004 Mod Crazy

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    Not entirely true. I remember getting quite few kills on a TAM server and on a base DM-Rankin erry day server using my age old combination of the RL, Flak, and Minigun. As long as you're good at prediction and quick on the mouse, you can get some nice kills.

    But I'm also not a pro at all.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2014
  7. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    ... with a bunch of noobs :) Same reason I played on ReconGamer all the time, you could get kills with the weapons you normally wouldn't.
     
  8. Arnox

    Arnox UT99/2004 Mod Crazy

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    Well, I'll tell you what WAS pretty miserable. The Link Gun, AR, Bio-Rifle, and the Translocator. Maybe less so for the Link because of its secondary fire.

    The Translocator used to be pretty OP'd in UT99, I agree. But ONLY BECAUSE it could be spammed infinitely. Unfortunately, Epic thought they needed to nerf it more besides limiting its ammo so they also took out how easy it used to be to telefrag someone with it in super close quarters. Boooooooo...
     
  9. -AEnubis-

    -AEnubis- fps greater than star

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    UT3 would be the best place to look for weapon damages to start. That was one thing they did improve on each iteration. UT weapon damages were designed for dial up net play, and severely outdated.
     
  10. TWD

    TWD Cute and Cuddly

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    I think you might remember a bit too much of the 2k3 parts as well when ReconGamer was truly in its heyday. The weapon balance was a bit different. IIRC the Flak cannon got nerfed to be less spammy. The changes made UT2k4 even more hitscan dominant. It was the weapons that made it this way, not the movement.
     
  11. -AEnubis-

    -AEnubis- fps greater than star

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    I got enough done with projectiles in 2kx to have a good time of it, but that's all I really do/practice. The problem was even being above average at slinging rox, you'd still get beat by average lighting.

    Some of the projetiles could use buffs, but I still would more enjoy bring the hitscan weapons down to the level of the projectiles.
     
  12. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    It was more the map, but yes. Recon played Citadel 24/7. You could use map knowledge to make up for not using hitscan. Sometimes.
     
  13. DeathBooger

    DeathBooger Malcolm's Sugar Daddy

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    My thoughts I posted over on the UT dev forum:

    It's freaky. I kinda feel like a traitor.
     
  14. -AEnubis-

    -AEnubis- fps greater than star

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    Experience is the best teacher.
     
  15. Hunter

    Hunter BeyondUnreal Newsie

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    I'd say one thing that doesn't need to come back in the knockdown you get in UT3. That thing is annoying as fuck.
     
  16. TWD

    TWD Cute and Cuddly

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    Go back and try UT99 with the matrix moves mutator. It was a popular mod that included wall walking and double jump, and was a major contributor rewards the inclusion of double jump in 2k4. It's a good baseline for how double jump feels with UT99 speed and gravity.
     
  17. Shrimp

    Shrimp Seafood splatter

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    Completely agree with this.

    I feel this offers a fair compromise between the faster but sharp movement of the original game's movement, while not completely abandoning the idea of some of the more acrobatic antics introduced in the later iterations.
     
  18. Wormbo

    Wormbo Administrator Staff Member

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    I posted the following thoughts over at the Unreal Engine Forums:
    What I didn't post there: Double jump might still be a valid move to activate jump boots, like it is done in UT3.
    But apart from that, getting rid of mid-air jumps should remove the floatyness. To keep (or increase) the speed, there are the infinite wall dodge (hard to chain efficiently without double jump) and fast dodge. Sliding probably is a bit gimmicky and may easily get out of control if implemented carelessly.
     
  19. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    I think I probably agree with all of that. I actually really like the idea of infinite wall dodge. There could be areas of maps specifically designed to exploit that, but it wouldn't really ruin anything unless you could exploit it in a corner or something (that was a problem in UC2).

    The sliding and rolling I would have to see in action to see if it actually added anything of value for me. It could cause gameplay headaches, I just don't know.

    I love your idea for fast dodging, though.
     
  20. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    Here is a discussion over on the official forums of the movement that has been committed to the code today.

    https://forums.unrealengine.com/showthread.php?5990-Movement-mechanics-of-most-current-code

    There is a small mantling system that basically lets you "trip" onto ledges. Seems pretty good. Also, wall dodging is in (might even be infinite wall dodging).

    Here s a webm video of the multidodge:

    [webm]http://ut.raxxy.com/787eee35d0_wall_dodge_mantle.webm[/webm]

    Another video of mantling and mantling while dodging:

    [webm]http://ut.raxxy.com/787eee35d0_side_dodge_mantle.webm[/webm]
     

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