Mark Rein On The Pervasiveness of UT3 Piracy
- Thread starter hal
- Start date
-
Two Factor Authentication is now available on BeyondUnreal Forums. To configure it, visit your Profile and look for the "Two Step Verification" option on the left side. We can send codes via email (may be slower) or you can set up any TOTP Authenticator app on your phone (Authy, Google Authenticator, etc) to deliver codes. It is highly recommended that you configure this to keep your account safe.
Oh hell NO, Steam sucks beyond believe.. Steam is nothing but a big Spyware program, and personally I want to have a box and disc.. If games are becoming steam only then it's the end for legitimate games for me.. But then again, I'm already of dumping my PC for gaming anyway as I'm sick and tired of having to buy a new videocard anyway to play the newest games in the way it looks like in any image/trailer, even UT3 never looked anything remote to the trailers/images on my 7600GT..
I would have thought that with the advent of digital distribution in the gaming industry companies would start to implement more imaginative protection schemes such as uniquely compiled executables that are keyed to a serial number held on the companies database, hardware or personal information. (entered during purchase) Coupled with some online
Par-like technology to detect files that have been tampered with would make life difficult for pirates as well as providing a level of anti-cheat.
On a side note unique executables would also lend themselves to tracking the source of any hack.
Par-like technology to detect files that have been tampered with would make life difficult for pirates as well as providing a level of anti-cheat.
On a side note unique executables would also lend themselves to tracking the source of any hack.
Last edited:
Here's the general idea behind cracking a CD key.os][ris;2125912 said:
- Disassemble whichever binary file does the validation.
- Get the algorithm from the disassembly.
- Write a program that uses this algorithm to generate keys of a valid nature.
To play online, a generated key must match a key that the developer has already produced. Real keys are already stored by them like you suggest. Fake ones may fit the algorithm but they don't match anything the developer produced, so it's obvious they are fake.
So, in order to get a playable real key, someone's got to randomly generate millions and millions of keys that fit the algorithm until they get a hit on one that actually exists to the developer.
The problem is that real keys aren't checked for installation -- all you need is something that fits the algorithm since all the checking is done client-side. Why, I don't know, but I think it has something to do with the idea that some people still don't have internet access. It seems like it could be a pretty obvious solution, but I'm sure there are plenty of problems with it.
At the same time, this sort of real key server-side validation still isn't foolproof. Just look at Photoshop. It requires something of this sort whereby it checks for a real key, yet crackers got around that too.
Additionally, what if five years from now the developer goes bankrupt? At that point no one has a central list of the real keys so no one can install the game since all the checks are server-side. D:
Last edited:
It's not unusual for someone to summarize an informal conversation in an article without quoting them. The speculation about losing billions is in the following paragraph and is clearly (at least in my mind) separated from what the author attributed to Mark Rein.
I was unaware that Mark disavowed those comments, can you point me in that direction and I'll take a look? Usually, if we doubt what is being attributed to an official source, we'll make that clear or we'll just ask. Mark is always really good about getting back with us to clarify.
Where there are no reasons to doubt the source, it's not really up to us to 'get our facts right'. We didn't generate the content. We're reporting what they wrote about their conversations with a couple of industry guys.
And no. We don't post stories with the sole intent of 'keeping readership going'. We post them because it is news and hopefully stuff that others who are interested in Unreal and the Unreal Engine will find valuable or entertaining.
Honestly, what is so incendiary about this story? Not really anything. Yeah, the guy writing the story clearly has some wonky mathematic and logic skills, but that's about it. I suppose we should just stop writing articles and news items about UT3 because we know people are going to bitch about them?
It's called account sharing and offline mode. In fact, you can easily play any steam game (TF2, etc) on a LAN in offline mode. Logon to each machine, install the game, then disconnect that computer from the internet. Repeat for each machine. Launch steam, iwll go into offline mode. You can play any of the installed games on all of the computers. Have a ball.
But you're right, i've never heard of anyone cheating on a VAC server without getting caught. Well, anytime someone does cheat, they think they get away with it, but steam uses a delayed-ban where you may not get banned right away, it will wait a few days or a week before it locks you out of all VAC servers.
I know, but this is still, essentially, an "offline mode". You can't play on online servers by doing this. I guess part of the point is that the things that use online stuff need to be good enough and worth it enough that you won't want to keep using the pirated version. This can be done a number of ways, one is multiplayer achievements. Unlocks and stuff, too. CoD4 wouldn't be that great of a game pirated, because half of the fun in it is getting the achievements/unlocks in multiplayer. Maybe that's why it is one of the best selling PC games ever.
Yes, I understand that. However...
http://utforums.epicgames.com/showpost.php?p=25370107&postcount=4
While Mark did not state that he was interviewed as such, he says he did not make the claim of 40 million attempts.
I didn't indicate it was up to you guys to get you facts straight, per se, but the author of the original article should have gotten his facts in order before publishing the article.
Honestly, it was a half-heartered poke at you for fun, but with a bit of seriousness included. I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. I'll refrain from such in the future.
There's nothing incendiary about the article itself; but you have to admit, the Epic haters will jump on anything that remotely gives them an opportunity to attack their target. Of course, I'm not blaming BU for this. It's just one of those things where you're damned it you do and damned if you don't. But, no, I am not advocating a news stoppage.
Honestly speaking, I either touched a nerve or posted something way out of bounds for you to give my original posting a second thought. Am I safe to assume it's the latter? Either way, that comment was made out of sheer frustration, not malice.
BooGiTyBoY
The ImPaCt-DaMpeNeD BooGeRaToR
Havent been on these forums in forever but I do occasionally check the main news page...
This topic and news post is just ridiculous.
There's no way they can account for 40 million people all buying the game. That's one of the most egotistical things I've ever heard come out of a game developer. I doubt even 1/4 of these people even had interest in it besides seeing it in a list of torrents and adding it to their downloads list...
Second of all this particular line disturbs me the most:
Umm.. what about the THOUSANDS of console games available online through torrent sites, and even worse... what about PC EMULATORS in which they are losing whole SYSTEM sales instead of just games.
Oh but that's our (the pc users) fault too right? I think just that one comment alone makes me never want to buy another game developed by Epic or Crytek if that's the way they are going to label pc users.
Or is this just another excuse they are trying to pawn off as to why they are going more towards consoles anyways.
Just my opinion. Please don't anyone reply to this with every other line quoted
This topic and news post is just ridiculous.
There's no way they can account for 40 million people all buying the game. That's one of the most egotistical things I've ever heard come out of a game developer. I doubt even 1/4 of these people even had interest in it besides seeing it in a list of torrents and adding it to their downloads list...
Second of all this particular line disturbs me the most:
Umm.. what about the THOUSANDS of console games available online through torrent sites, and even worse... what about PC EMULATORS in which they are losing whole SYSTEM sales instead of just games.
Oh but that's our (the pc users) fault too right? I think just that one comment alone makes me never want to buy another game developed by Epic or Crytek if that's the way they are going to label pc users.
Or is this just another excuse they are trying to pawn off as to why they are going more towards consoles anyways.
Just my opinion. Please don't anyone reply to this with every other line quoted
Sometimes it is needed, but there is no need for you to be rude about it. To recap for you, just in case you can't or won't read the entire thread, Mark already disavowed making the statement about the 40 million number. I have never seen or heard anything out of Epic stating that piracy has doomed PC gaming, nor have they made any such claims that piracy is the reason for low UT3 PC player counts or perceived low sales figures (as perceived by the community).Please don't anyone reply to this with every other line quoted
The article had an accompanying interview with a Crysis dev regarding piracy and lost game sales. The article itself includes alleged commentary from Mark but the 40 million illegitimate attempts and lost sales figures appear to be trumped up by the article's author.
I have seen companies react this way before - if they dont refocus their company on serving the interests of their market and not on filling their wallet, they will self destruct.
They are headed down the road of mistrusting the very people that made them in the first place.
They are headed down the road of mistrusting the very people that made them in the first place.
It is clear my fellow forumers: Pirates are killing the PC gaming and Ninjas are just standing there watching...
I don't get your big gripe with steam. I've just installed orange box yesterday and finished Portal. I was surprised at how well the steam platform integrated into the games. I'm not sure why your calling it "Spyware" but I would love if UT3 was fully integrated with steam.
Well, whatever.
I posted it simply to show that Mark (reportedly) said that there were 40 million attempts to access - not an unreasonable proclamation. I never said - or endorsed - any of that other stuff about them losing 40 million sales or 2 billion dollars. It simply looked like bad math and logic by the article author to me, and in no way diminished the part of the story that the news post highlighted.
Instead, we have a four page thread complaining about Epic, about those who are complaining, and now about us for posting the news. Awesome.
Well, whatever.
I posted it simply to show that Mark (reportedly) said that there were 40 million attempts to access - not an unreasonable proclamation. I never said - or endorsed - any of that other stuff about them losing 40 million sales or 2 billion dollars. It simply looked like bad math and logic by the article author to me, and in no way diminished the part of the story that the news post highlighted.
Instead, we have a four page thread complaining about Epic, about those who are complaining, and now about us for posting the news. Awesome.
Did I hear a "I love my job" in there somewhere?
C'mon, you know it's always going to be like this...
Someone has stats that suggest this... this guy has stats that suggest that... and everyone is right.
Hell, if it wasn't for the constant fighting and bickering between the haters (and they're all haters, one hates for, one hates against...) people wouldn't have any way to spend their days.
And I don't know about everyone else, but in Kentucky, today was a beautiful day... the family cooked out and had a few drinks... it was just too sweet to miss.
I wonder what the rest of these fellas did?
Is very sad to now that nfo ma8, because every REAL FAN of UT xpend most of their cash by buying the game and also upgrading or buying a new gaming rig to play UT and other games on the PC, im not aproving to use the pirate way like an option for the masses , if u want to play and test the game before you buy it go and download first a demo , and if you dont have any money to buy a game, go and find a job! many of us that are serious gamers or even casual gamers we work very hard to get what we always want like everybody else around, and we are doing the right way right? ok? well trow the first rock if u dont do that! ( i know !!! everybody here also download many things from "rare sites" torrents, usenet and stuff like that but seriously !! if you really like a game go and buy it or get your download but in the legal way!!!!! )
I think someone is trying to school us here.
Some people of the middle class that have a job over here are considered as being under the poverty limit. They actually have to contact social services for a complement to their salary. This is smack bang in the middle of Europe. This is without taking into account the 10 to 20 percent unemployment rate in some old industrial regions.
Of course gaming is a luxury and can be done away with. However I felt you should be aware of this reality.