Jamming!!!

[gal-z]

On one hand, weapons jam IRL. Some weapons jam more than others (way more actually) so it's another thing you should be considering when you choose your weapon.
On the other hand, jams depend on problems witht he weapon, being it dirt, a belt that got a round out of place (causes lots of jams in the negev that is equivalent to the minimi) and simply a bad/old weapon. Those are things that IMO are quite impossible to simulate in-game, so even though jams would be realistic, they cannot be implemented realistically.

 

[mbs357]

Until games start modelling guns down to every detail and simulating their bolt/slide actions in an incredibly realistic physics engine I doubt we'll see well done jamming.

 

[Derelan]

In real life, the rate at which you fix a jam is determined by experience and skill. In game, you would be sitting there holding the 'fix jam' key. I think we have enough of crap like that in-game.

 

[5eleven]

Frankly, "jams", or malfunctions happen more often than one would like to believe. Most of the malfunctions that I've seen are operator error, which have nothing to do with cleaned or serviced weapons. If this were ever to be researched and implemented, which I doubt, I would like to see malfunctions occur more frequently when "hipping", when firing while moving, or when trying to fire too quickly moving in or out of a crouch or prone position. For example: tapping the fire key while going in or out of prone, once that position is successfully reached, the next round fired would be some type of malfunction, requiring immediate action. Hey, they say "as real as it gets".

[SARCASM] What I'd really like to see, speaking of cleaning and servicing weapons, is that when these absolute uberl337 soldiers that are constantly playing, and constantly playing for hours on end, round and match after round and match, and using the same weapon, that the weapon begins to get hot, dirty, the barrel fouls, and it begins to malfunction on an increasingly frequent basis. Then they would have to either switch weapons, or sit out a match via keybind to do a simulated weapon cleaning, and could then continue to use the weapon. [/SARCASM]

 

[Crowze]

Infiltration: The MMORPG

 

[Harrm]

I long for the days when I can take a Kevlar Helmet of +1 gun repair ability and -1 to charisma, and have to pass a leadership test so that I dont accidentally hit the "reload" key while trying to go prone.

--Harrm

 

[mbs357]

I killed the white rabbit for 200 XP and looted a +1 accuracy and +1 range ACOG attachment!!!


-mbs, level 13 rifleman.

 

[NTKB]

Wow I killed Weed Evil and an M4 +5 Vorpal of Dragon Slaying popped out his ass! Oh and a leg of turkey!!!

 

[gal-z]

I don't see how u guys connect jams with prone/crouch/strafe...
Let's see what I know that causes jams in some weapons:
M16 type:
missfire: Magazine not inserted well, bad magazine, weapon on safe, bad ammo, broken "thing that hits the bullet from behind that i don't know its name in english".
double feed: bad magazine.
Doesn't eject the case or doesn't take a new bullet: dirt, broken "thing that ejects the bullet".
M24:
Doesn't eject: loads of dirt on the thing that's supposed to eject the casings, or it may just be broken.
Doesn't take a bullet: Bullets not properly loaded.
Missfire: bad ammo, broken "thing that hits the bullet from behind that i don't know its name in english".

As you can see malfunctions are mostly caused by bad equipment and human mistakes, and those that aren't are quite impossible to simulate (dirt).

 

[5eleven]

I, ME, I am not "connecting" them to prone/crouch. All of the malfunctions you listed are mechanical causes. Even though you didn't actually list them correctly. (A misfire isn't caused by having the weapon on safe, that is another human error. Nonetheless, I can agree in principal with your comments. However, there are additional reasons that can set these things in motion. Poor weapon handling, without going into exact specifics, is a primary cause. Especially with handguns. Poor, or weak grip accounts for more malfunctions that I have seen, as opposed to a true mechanical problem. Try repeatedly firing a rifle without placing the buttstock into your shoulder. It may not happen every time, but chances are, you will probably see a stovepipe type malfunction, at a minimum. Weapons aren't specifically designed to account for recoil in thin air, with no support.

As you can see malfunctions are mostly caused by bad equipment and human mistakes

Right. Which leads to my previous comments, which would include operator error. As described above, when is the most frequent time that you would remove a weapon from your shoulder to fire, and move into another position? Crouch, and prone. Soldiers are supposed to exercise good fire discipline. Therefore, you probably wouldn't be firing while moving in and out of the prone position, and if you did, it could conceivably lead to problems. Agreed, it's a stretch, and it's just a game discussion, but that's where I was coming from.

Who said anything about dirt? Unless you are referring to my sarcastic comments about weapons cleaning, which was only meant to show, once again, that in real life, you can't go through 837 firefights without weapons maintenance. That's a fact. And dirty weapons lead to malfunctions. How else would you find a bad extractor or chipped rails, or any number of other things that might be beginning to fail on your weapon?

 

[mbs357]

"thing that ejects the bullet" Extractor?
"thing that hits the bullet from behind that i don't know its name in english" Firing pin?
Both of these can cause misfires and stoppages, and can be prevented with maintenance.

 

[yurch]

Poor weapon handling, without going into exact specifics, is a primary cause. Especially with handguns. Poor, or weak grip accounts for more malfunctions that I have seen, as opposed to a true mechanical problem.

An interesting ancedote, my father(who resembles a very large bear) has hands so large that he repeatedly blocks the slide of our 1911 simply from his thumb pressing against the side of it.
The funny part is he never seems to notice.

 

[5eleven]

I once observed a guy at training firing an M16A1, which would not properly cycle. You could actually watch through the ejector port, that it was cycling in "slow motion", which caused an improper/unseated feed after every firing, causing him to pound on the forward assist 20 times after every shot.

Once we took the weapon apart, we realized that he put the firing pin retaining pin that goes through the bolt carrier, in backwards. Instead of inserting through the wide chamfered hole, he put it in the "exit" pin hole, which hung the head of the cotter pin inside the rifle.

Stupidest thing I ever saw, especially after he complained for 25 minutes that the weapon was a piece of crap.

 

[gal-z]

I don't see not placing the stock in your shoulder as a main cause of weapon jamming... By human mistakes I meant more improper loading, or like mentioned above, improper putting the wepaon back together after taking it apart, or simply keeping the wepaon on safe. All those mistakes should never happen to the INF soldier IMO.
Also I don't think the INF soldier has budget problems so he should be able to get the best ammunition, magazines and weapons so they aren't broken and won't cause jams.
Dunno about pistols, I guess I can ask my dad (he owns one), but as far as I know he has an FN pistol that very rarely jams, plus he maintains it well so I doubt he ever experienced a jam. But I'll check.

And I guess extractor and firing pin it is...
If the names of parts in English really piss me off again I'll just post a picture of a stripped M16 and ask for the names of all parts in English... Or you guys can just learn hebrew

 

[5eleven]

Your English is fine. I'd love to learn Hebrew, but there isn't much use for it where I am.

I guess we'll have to disagree and leave it at that - I can't make you understand that operator error can, and does, in fact, cause weapon malfunctions.

Also I don't think the INF soldier has budget problems so he should be able to get the best ammunition, magazines and weapons so they aren't broken and won't cause jams.

There are ammunitions, magazines and weapons that are of the best design, and some function better than others. Some are less prone to failure in some conditions as opposed to others. But none will operate at 100% at 100% of the time.

Dunno about pistols, I guess I can ask my dad (he owns one), but as far as I know he has an FN pistol that very rarely jams, plus he maintains it well so I doubt he ever experienced a jam. But I'll check.

You have already proven my point. And trust me, I know enough about pistols.....I speaketh the truth.

 

[G36]

Sure adding Jamming would make it closer to "as real as it gets", but even when pursuing realism it makes sense to avoid some things that would just be annoying in-game. Realistically your soldier would have a ~1/20 chance of starting combat with a cold or some ailment, how would you like your stamina halved based on chance? Jamming would be the same: it would just end up being annoying with no gameplay benefit. We are here to play a game remember, if I want to play real life I'll go outside

 

[gal-z]

Well I've never seen any problems with the guys who fired many rounds from the hip for fun (since you're forced to do a shooting range but nobody really cares about actually training while they do).
Also there was an incident of an Uzi that fell on the ground and emptied its mag in full auto, no jams.
Maybe other weapons do stuff like that, but I know almost for sure that some weapons do not have this kind of problem.

 

[G36]

It's not physically possible for the Uzi to do that, because it's got a grip safety. Unless you were watching True Lies?

 

[OICW]

That wasn't an Uzi in True Lies, it was a Mac series of submachinegun, I believe it was the Mac10 but I'm not familiar with the differences between the Mac10 and Mac11 (nor do I want to be ).

 

[Lidzsvars]

There are ammunitions, magazines and weapons that are of the best design, and some function better than others. Some are less prone to failure in some conditions as opposed to others. But none will operate at 100% at 100% of the time.

You know, that is the truth. In this summer I spend about 500$ in shooting range with GLOCK 17 (this is one of the best pistols in the world) and it jammed about 3-4 times.