Is INF all about 5.56 Assault Rifles?

[Nukeproof]

I've bee thinking about this for a while but with the new/upcoming weapons (and even more with yurch's new hit detection which seems to make lucky headshots less likely) INF seems to be mostly about 5.56 Assault Rifles, which might be realistic but a bit booring since 60% of the amory faces rare usage

In 90% of the maps anybody not using an AR is imposing kind of a handycap to himself. (AKMSU is keeping up quite well)

- IIIa vests render the shotties, some SMGs and most pistols to the state of 'hardcore user only' (at least when used as a primary)

- the burst delay for the SAW makes it an 'defensive only' weapon since its only useful proned/kneeled spamming a passage with bullets

- due to heavy bobbing, long aiming and rather short distances in maps, sniper rifles are rarely useful

- Nobody did an assault rifle with a different caliber yet, so all the ARs are pretty similar, which keeps the variety of efficient weapons rather low

I don't say this is all wrong I'm just analyzing and I wonder wether something simple can be done to make anything none 5.56 AR more attractive... I would personally love to use the MP5 and Benelli, the new MAG 7 and UZI more often but I tend to get my ass kicked already... it just doesn't pay out.

Yurch mentioned a weapon mutie like UN17's Socom mutator for the shottie. Maybe something like this can be done for other weapons

One idea:

Is there alternative, amor piercing ammunition for some of the pistols/SMG's available IRL? Adding it would reincarnate the once widely loved MP5....

The only problem that I see: we would be drowning in muties... maybe SS there is still a slight chance for INF 2.91 ???

 

[Infguy98]

,

 

[spm1138]

The phrase "hard cheese" springs to mind.

Apart from the SAW being rendered kinda useless by the trigger delay I don't see a problem with the spread of weapons you get in Inf.

I think they fairly accurately reflect what infantry use IRL, for many of the same reasons. That seems to be what Inf is all about.

We're short a full length AK of some description but apart from that...

Sniper's rifles aren't used much because of the nature of most of the maps that get played. On RtK you can't stick your head over the top without somebody plinking at you with a RC50. I know you said that, but you make it sound like you want something done to make em useful. This would be a bad thing. Stupid amounts of time are spent balancing sniper's rifles for maps that are really not big enough to warrant them in other mods.

 

[})FA|Snake]

Sniper rifle are if anything still too easy to use, if you know how to find a good position you can wreak havoc.

But I agree with the SMG and Shotty being second-class citizens now that the legs have proper hit detection. Perhaps another look at the damage values/recoil of these weapons is in order? or perhaps we need to add some kind of temporary disabling effect to getting shot with a shotgun/SMG while wearing armor. That stuff keeps you alive but IRL you should be quite stunned if not knocked unconcious by taking 5 9mm to the chest (maybe not as much with the metal plate in the IIIa, but it should still have some effect)

 

[spm1138]

What... like Counter-Strike?

 

[Rostam]

IMO the AKMSU is an assault rifle, because SMG's fire pistol ammo per definition (IIRC).
Anyway here is a short list of weapons I use:
M1S90, M9, Mp5, Micro Uzi, M16a2/a4, Mag7, HK69, Mk23, AKMSU, FA MAS, PSG and the m4 when I want a scope and flashlight on a nightmap.

The last one is an intersting one, because ever since the M4 came along "everyone" seems to use it. Kinda like the Mp5 during the 285 days.

Bad? No... Boring? Yes. I really don't understand how people can use the same weapon for so long, I got bored using the knife all the time during 2.85.5 :-/

Anyway, I think people will massively switch to G36k (another 5.56mm) and G3a3 (yay 7.62) when the bonus pack comes out.
Heh, just been thinking what a great loadout the Micro uzi + Mini uzi loadout would be.

Anyway I try to stay away from the Assault Rifles as much as possible and soon enough others will follow. Shooting the micro uzi at 3 targets from 100 meters = fun. Shooting at people at long range with a shotgun = fun. Using the HK69 = fun. Alot of other examples can be given, but soon enough I think people will pick weapons because they like them instead of ruling with them (I know I did 3,5 years ago .

 

[Nukeproof]

I think they fairly accurately reflect what infantry use IRL, for many of the same reasons. That seems to be what Inf is all about.

Well I personally always thought of INF beeing a Spec-Ops simulation more than regular infantry. That's how EAS, picking weapons yourself, not having artillery, tanks aso makes the most sence to me. To my limited knowledge Spec-Ops would use SMG's more likely than a M16 or a SAW.

... On RtK you can't stick your head over the top without somebody plinking at you with a RC50. I know you said that, but you make it sound like you want something done to make em useful. This would be a bad thing. Stupid amounts of time are spent balancing sniper's rifles for maps that are really not big enough to warrant them in other mods.

unlike most other forumers I didn't want to demand for anything here I just wanted to bring this up and get an impression how others feel about it.

A lot of the new weapons are used right now... because they are new. People tend to go back to what 'works' once they got an impression.

 

[spm1138]

Well I personally always thought of INF beeing a Spec-Ops simulation more than regular infantry. That's how EAS, picking weapons yourself, not having artillery, tanks aso makes the most sence to me. To my limited knowledge Spec-Ops would use SMG's more likely than a M16 or a SAW.

Maybe five or ten years ago that would have been the case.

Nowadays a lot of them appear* to have switched to 5.56mm weapons. SEALs doing shipboard stuff, which you'd regard as being very much an MP5 sort of situation, now appear in photos armed with 10" barrelled M16s.

I read that Force Recon couldn't ditch their MP5s for M4s quick enough.

Some European spec-ops units seem to be armed with variants of the G36 or the SIG551 or even the M4.

You said it yourself - SMGs are sh tty against targets wearing body armour. They also have short effective ranges - something you definitely notice on bigger maps in Inf.

* Because lets face it neither you nor I know for definite what a special forces unit is going to be carrying.

 

[ninjin]

i used to think spec-ops = MP5, i must be really ignorant and out-dated ()

 

[SaraP]

The Marine Corps used MP5Ns for a while, but rather quickly dumped them for the M4 carbine due to poor penetration.

 

[})FA|Snake]

if thats true then I guess its right, I too was under the impression MP5s were still a Spec Ops weapon of choice.

Though making the rifle suppressors acutally sound like they're firing super-sonic loads (as in, make them louder) would go a long way to giving the SMG a place in the game still (being the only truely quiet guns)

 

[NTKB]

Would perhaps fixing the AKMSU make 7.62 more attractive? I mean it does have a higher ROF than it does now in real life doesnt it? Not sure on these things but now that we have the M4 maybe its time to "fix" the older weapons. Make the FAMAS sites realistic, etc.

 

[Rostam]

But more importantly, snake, muzzle flash. I played this really dark map yesterday and couldn't see an enemy firing at me 10 meters in front of me. Muzzle flash is the easiest way to identify hidden targets, the supressors are just too good at that espescially IMO.

edit:
I think another thing with 5.56 seems to be the kick, you can land a third round burst at targets 100 meters away. From what I understand the third bullet would never land (assuming you aim at the stomach).

 

[{GD}Ghost]

The last one is an intersting one, because ever since the M4 came along "everyone" seems to use it. Kinda like the Mp5 during the 285 days.

Bad? No... Boring? Yes. I really don't understand how people can use the same weapon for so long, I got bored using the knife all the time during 2.85.5 :-/

Anyway, I think people will massively switch to G36k (another 5.56mm) and G3a3 (yay 7.62) when the bonus pack comes out.
Heh, just been thinking what a great loadout the Micro uzi + Mini uzi loadout would be.

I think its only natural that when new weapns come out, that people will all want to try them for a bit. Soon enough, the novelty will wear off and people will settle into what they personally like best. God knows....as well as many people here, that I've been asking for the M4 for quite some time now. Its here so I'm gonna use it. It would be a shame for me not to. Like myself, I think people will eventually settle on a favorite (whatever that may be)that works for them, learn to use it well and stick with that.

 

[geogob]

[...] IMO [...]

what about some facts for a change? Or should we change it for Infiltration: This is as real as we want it to get.

 

[Rostam]

Wow geogob, let me think... Oh here is a thought, how about in a conflict there are always 2 sides. And as we can see right now during these times of elected warmongers, only one side uses 5.56mm rifles.

 

[geogob]

Someone didn't get my point

 

[Nukeproof]

Would perhaps fixing the AKMSU make 7.62 more attractive? I mean it does have a higher ROF than it does now in real life doesnt it? Not sure on these things but now that we have the M4 maybe its time to "fix" the older weapons. Make the FAMAS sites realistic, etc.

The AKMSU seems like the smallest problem to me (its allmost as good as the AR's and it rocks in CQB)

Its the shotties, the MP5, and a little the SAW and the UZI that can't keep up.... not mentioning pistols that aren't supposed to be very usefull on the battlefield

 

[Rostam]

geogob then what should I say? Sure he didn't give facts, but he is right. What more do you want?

 

[geogob]

Have I ever said that I didn't agree with what he (I guess that you are refering to Nukeproof) said?

To be honnest its more the comment abour supressors that made me frown.