Since zeep's original rant is slowly drifting off topic, i might as well go for total hijack here : what do you guys think of "euro" as a name for a currency ? I still think this is the worst possible name they could have come up with, and that it sounds like a fantasy currency for an amusement park, the Wonderful Euroland.
Forget about the positive thing you heard about The Netherlands
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das_ben said:
Yeah, but no. It's taken the consolidation of Europes' powerhouses to gain a relatively minor advantage in currency just to give you a scope of the power the dollar holds. That, and it's the most recognizable currency in the global market. The Euro is a very recent addition, and it hasn't yet reached its' peak yet which is why it is still growing. Also, with the state of European politics the Euro is also very unreliable (we just haven't seen much fluctuation yet because any fluctuation is masked by the Euros' growth). It is easily affected by national relations and treaties, whereas the dollar is consolidated in one country. Also, as more countries pick up the Euro, the scope of national liability increases, and those countries can actually detract from the Euros' effectiveness (the aforementioned 'some countries benefitted from the Euro).
I'm used to having this argument all the time. For some reason every time Europe vs. US comes up people always bring up the Euro. Said people are either stupid or idiotically loyal. The dollar is a standard, and that's not going to change for quite some time.
Now, the only argument that holds up against the power of the dollar, is that there will be an eventual end to dollar diplomacy, which was brought up before Congress in mid-Febuary. But one point addressed during the same session was that even though the dollar does not hold the weight in our market, it still holds a much higher demand than other currency, which alone empowers it past the Euro (for example the dollar crash of the 1970s). The end of this could either be catostrophic or negligable to the value of the dollar, but this still remains a highly debated topic among economists.
The dollar has been characterized by periods of slow loss followed by periods of huge gain. Right now, we are in a period of loss on the tail end of the 90's economic explosion. Who's to say there wont be another in 10-20 years?
So, there is your stupidly long Psychomorph-esque post. If you read it all, good for you. If you want to debate this further, please IM me on AIM about it so I don't derail the thread anymore than it already is.
--Harrm
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It depends not on how many people say that but on WHO. When former Fed members mean that today the Dollar is weak and is not unlikely to crash, because of the gigantic foreign trade deficit - especially with China (~200 billion dollars) who buy dollar like hell - when you should start worring other than believing in a symbol.Harrm said:
I do not like écu, man I think the only people who like that word are french. Euro just sounds (imo) more EUROpean than écu. And that has nothing to do with the actual design of the money, because the money itself looks like the money of a game. I like Dollar, Pound Sterling ... nearly all designs more than the Euro-design.
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I like it better than Euro.
Anything would be better than this unimaginative, technocratic, dull name. Plus when you pronounce it in french it sounds like your stomach is saying it. It actually only sounds decent in english (i don't know all european languages though), and they don't even want it.
Anything would be better than this unimaginative, technocratic, dull name. Plus when you pronounce it in french it sounds like your stomach is saying it. It actually only sounds decent in english (i don't know all european languages though), and they don't even want it.
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And now think about écu. Don't you think that écu does not sound that good in all germanic languages. So if you pronounce européen or européenne it does sound good?
Btw. it was Greenspan who said that a Dollar-crash is just a question of time.
Btw. it was Greenspan who said that a Dollar-crash is just a question of time.
Indeed, iirc it was the Germans who opposed the name Ecu. Is that because it sounds close to a derogatory term ?
Yet i heard "Euro" pronounced in german, it doesn't sound that good either...
It could have been a good idea to pick a name that is pronounced almost the same in all european countries.
Yet i heard "Euro" pronounced in german, it doesn't sound that good either...
It could have been a good idea to pick a name that is pronounced almost the same in all european countries.
écu just sounds plain stupid here, I just can't think of another word sounding THAT stupid (somehow also gay).
I wouldn't want to bet on the Euro as being 'stable'. Heck ... if it wasn't for France, Germany and Italy cheating there wouldn't have been enough countries to start the Euro-farce in the first place.
I'm not sure what our politicians were smoking at that time, but it's more than a little ridiculous that the UK gets discounts (in order to tempt them to become one of us) while we got suckered into paying the most of all euro-nations.
I'm not sure what our politicians were smoking at that time, but it's more than a little ridiculous that the UK gets discounts (in order to tempt them to become one of us) while we got suckered into paying the most of all euro-nations.
The discounts are older than the Euro and began with the Iron Lady, because "I want my money back!" She found it unfair that countries like France get so many subventions in the agro-industry, while the Britisch agro-industry was not so big at that time.
The Euro was "stabilized" after its adoption with the help of the Fed and by now you can consider it as a relative solid currency.
Yes it's true and unfair that the Netherlands pay most per person. The Nehterlands with around 16 million citizens payed 4 Million € more than France with 59 million citizens in 2002 and France was at that time the country that profited second most (after Spain, 3rd was Germany) of the EU, not to mention other countries. There you see how far the european spirit is if it comes to money.
The Euro was "stabilized" after its adoption with the help of the Fed and by now you can consider it as a relative solid currency.
Yes it's true and unfair that the Netherlands pay most per person. The Nehterlands with around 16 million citizens payed 4 Million € more than France with 59 million citizens in 2002 and France was at that time the country that profited second most (after Spain, 3rd was Germany) of the EU, not to mention other countries. There you see how far the european spirit is if it comes to money.
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Everyones got a massive foreign trade deficit. This is nothing new, and that is already accounted for in the current price of the dollar. People keep telling of horror stories of China becoming this huge unstoppable superpower etc. etc. when the individual income of residents is so ridiculously low. Well, those incomes are roses. On the one hand, they enable China to produce extremely cheap products that people like you and I enjoy every day, however, they are vastly incapable of providing necessary self-service and technologically advanced production aids. Also, since there are such low wages, there is more money going up the line, and the only way to take advantage of this money is for companies to be based in US, EU, or US/EU-controlled provinces. These companies then get hit with heavy taxes for basing in the US (which they really have no choice), recouping a good amount of the loss. Tag that with the economic influx of money from expensive service that's sold to other countries so that they may continue to provide us with more stuff, and that creates a positive modifier on the long-term deficit. I mean, just look at the US market long term (Yahoo has a handy dandy 5 year, go to Yahoo finances). You'll see growth, loss, growth, loss, growth, loss, but an overall increasing trend.
I also like your last sentance. It makes it seem like you totally know what you're talking about. Totally.
--Harrm
EDIT: Seriously, IM me if you want to argue market dynamics. These posts are big and clutter the hell out of the thread.
EDIT EDIT: I'm a jerk. IM me!
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Germany, France do not have a foreign trade deficit. The US approximately imported 1263 Billion $ in 2003, while they only approximately exported 714 Billion $ and by now the figures are even worse. I do not say that China will become a superpower. China is bound to the US. They won't profit if the Dollar crashs.
Seriously, I scrolled up right now to SEE what the actual topic was. I had to laugh afterwards.
Seriously, I scrolled up right now to SEE what the actual topic was. I had to laugh afterwards.
ugh Taxes in the Netherlands dont get me started. I mean paying taxes is a neccesary evil but when you come with crap like Doggy taxes, 60% inheritance tax (YES it can go up to 60% and our IRS is very driven to get it up as high as possible) and lets not forget all the car related taxes.
Our glorious police force who have prestatie contracts. Which means they have a pre set target of Fines to give out. If they reach the amount of fines they get extra money from The Hague. Infact I see the police no longer as a force to keep order but more as a ordinary tax collector gang.
Add the whole bureacratic machine running this nation. Where incompentence is rewarded. Not to mention the whole jungle of ****ing rules. I own a house for example but with all the idiotic rules its just like im renting it from a retarded landlord.
And then we have the hidden taxes. Gas prices are a good one. Everyone is bitching on the oil compagnies here but its the governement with its high taxes on gas are on of the reasons gas is expensive. Further the connection of Natural gas with oil prices. Eventhough natural gas and oil are 2 completely different products our governement has connected them for extra income. That's why energy prices are so high.
And another fine example of how our governement rips us off.
Recently they abolished or lowered the OZB (a property tax).So you think I would be happy. No because now they have to come up with compensation tax.
The house owners now have to pay a higher waterschapsbelasting (if im correct) (another property tax). Officially under the pretence that they need money to build better and higher dykes. But here is the catch there is already enough money for these kind of projects. They simply need to compensate the loss of the OZB tax.
And you people start about other EU nations have to pay higher taxes its true but the Netherlands are always in top 3 of highest prices.
Our glorious police force who have prestatie contracts. Which means they have a pre set target of Fines to give out. If they reach the amount of fines they get extra money from The Hague. Infact I see the police no longer as a force to keep order but more as a ordinary tax collector gang.
Add the whole bureacratic machine running this nation. Where incompentence is rewarded. Not to mention the whole jungle of ****ing rules. I own a house for example but with all the idiotic rules its just like im renting it from a retarded landlord.
And then we have the hidden taxes. Gas prices are a good one. Everyone is bitching on the oil compagnies here but its the governement with its high taxes on gas are on of the reasons gas is expensive. Further the connection of Natural gas with oil prices. Eventhough natural gas and oil are 2 completely different products our governement has connected them for extra income. That's why energy prices are so high.
And another fine example of how our governement rips us off.
Recently they abolished or lowered the OZB (a property tax).So you think I would be happy. No because now they have to come up with compensation tax.
The house owners now have to pay a higher waterschapsbelasting (if im correct) (another property tax). Officially under the pretence that they need money to build better and higher dykes. But here is the catch there is already enough money for these kind of projects. They simply need to compensate the loss of the OZB tax.
And you people start about other EU nations have to pay higher taxes its true but the Netherlands are always in top 3 of highest prices.