UT3 DM-HardFall

[SuperAlgae]

Maybe the pool is hard to get out because I'm swimming and I'm just impatient and want to get back to the action.

I do see that UT3 has an issue with its swimming physics/movement.

While swimming, if you push against a wall and turn left or right, then you will smoothly transition to move left or right along the wall as expected. However, if you push against a wall and turn up or down, then you hardly move up or down at all until you turn completely parallel to the wall. This makes getting out of bodies of water with walls (like a swimming pool) more difficult than it should be. To get out easily, you must swim up with only the jump key. Only press forward after you have jumped from the water.

I tried a number of tricks in the map to work around this, but they all have little impact or have other undesirable side effects...

The one trick that actually works is to put a volume along each wall with a velocity vector that pushes the player away from the wall (so that the player does not actually touch the wall). The problem with this is that if you swim up to the wall and then let go of the controls, then you will "bounce" off the wall. It makes for an unnatural effect that may be even worse than the problem it solves.

Adding steps did not help at all because the vertical edges of the steps have the same problem as the walls.

The best option I found was to put angled blocking volumes on the walls so that in terms of collision, the wall is tilted back some. This means that the degree to which you must turn upwards is less than if the wall's collision is truly vertical. I'll play around with the angles some and perhaps even angle the BSP itself (so it is visibly sloped).

 

[Bi()ha2arD]

You could also cover steps with an angled blocking volume.

 

[WedgeBob]

Yes, volumes could have the same vertex manipulation that any BSP brush can, pretty much, you do have a point there, Bi().

 

[SuperAlgae]

You could also cover steps with an angled blocking volume.

Yes, volumes could have the same vertex manipulation that any BSP brush can, pretty much, you do have a point there, Bi().

Thanks for the input. I use vertex edited blocking volumes in a number of places, but in this case they barely help. There are basically four options (considering just collision-- it could be made to look like steps or whatever.).

1. Have a completely vertical wall. This is the base case and has the problems described previously.
2. Make the angle shallow enough to walk on. I assume this would solve the problem, but it does not work at all with the map layout in that area.
3. Make the angle very steep, but not quite vertical. This helps a little, but not much. This is what I am using at the moment.
4. Make the angle somewhere in between (around 60 degrees). This makes getting out of the water even more difficult. I think the character tries to walk up the slope, but it is too steep to walk on.

For now, I'm sticking with option 3. If it seems to really hurt gameplay, then I may rework the area to see if I can fit in option 2.

Part of the difficulty for me is that repeated playing of the map has trained me to navigate it in ways that work well. I now naturally exit water in a way that avoids this quirk of the UT physics. It is hard for me to judge how much it hurts the gameplay for other people.

 

[stevelois]

AFAIK, water volume isn't a big deal. I know your working on this map since a long long time & it is already very polished. But working on small stuff like that that most users won't bother or play like you do or I do won't see that as an issue but rather that it is normal in UT3.

I didn't get any issue while playing on your map or any other map that use water volume. You just have to know how to orient yourself to get out & this apply to UT3 water volume, not your map. Something I can suggest is to raise the water volume like 8 uu's above the ground so it will help bot & since it's invisible, the player won't notice it when close to the pool.

Being a perfectionist myself, you have to learn when to stop & work on other things or else you'll never finish it because you will always find stuff to work on even if 99% won't never notice your added details. Others will complain on this or that, even on small irrelevant things.

Trying to please everyone for something that isn't in your control is a big waste of time. I suggest you release the map as it is since the current state is truly awesome.

 

[SuperAlgae]

Thanks stevelois. I agree that at this point I really just need to get this map released. I'm a perfectionist, but even I have my limits, and I have other projects to work on. I'm going to keep the water as is. I have a build about ready for RC3, which I expect will be the final (pending some online play testing). The biggest difference versus RC2 is the sharper shadowing. Here are some screenshots.

 

[stevelois]

Your very welcome,

Very crisp shadows how I like them

Very nice work in all & I'm very exited to add it in my top picks when final... go final go

 

[SuperAlgae]

I finally found some time to put together the release package for RC3. It's available here ...
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4156719/DM-HardFall-RC3.zip

Can anyone help with some basic online testing? I want to make sure the kismet works okay online with multiple players. I'd like to have someone else go through some parts of the level while I monitor the behavior as a second player.

 

[stevelois]

I send ya a pm dude

 

[Odedge]

I finally got around to check out the map (procrastination is my middle name). Ironically, if you quickly glance over the pictures on the first thread, it doesn't look like a fun map to play. Well, that would be an incorrect impression.

I found the game play to be fun to play in both buildings. The smaller building might be a little on the "tight" size, but it's not annoying to navigate as the player doesn't seem to get caught on stuff.

The visuals, while on the simple side, look very nice. I think the simplistic nature helps the map. I especially like the contrasting aspects of the building (brick/cement). The lighting is also really well done!

There doesn't seem much to "tweak". The only things I can possibly suggest...

1. On the green building, there are 2 meshes sticking out of the ground (StaticMeshActor_161/243), that looks a bit odd.

2. I would consider having a teleporter. I don't think bots will make the jump from building to building. Well, at least not on the level I played (Adept). Though I love that "MEGA jump" from the green building to the main one.

3. You might also want to think about releasing it as 2 smaller maps. I think each building can stand on it's own and make for nicer smaller battles. This is especially true if the bots don't use the jump pads.

I would still keep the other buildings visible, just delete all of the stuff the player won't be able to see to help keep the file size down.

Anyways, very nice works and hope to see a final someday (the RC 3 will keep my happy til then).

 

[SuperAlgae]

Thanks for the feedback Odedge. I'm working out some final issues (mainly problems with kismet online) as we speak.

Ironically, if you quickly glance over the pictures on the first thread, it doesn't look like a fun map to play. Well, that would be an incorrect impression.

Any suggestions on different screenshots to use? I'll need some for the final release thread, and I'd like to have ones that accurately represent the map.

1. On the green building, there are 2 meshes sticking out of the ground (StaticMeshActor_161/243), that looks a bit odd.

Those are supposed to hatches/plates that would cover an A/C system or some other sort machinery. From a gameplay perspective, they give the player a raised area to help make the jump up to the ledge easier.

2. I would consider having a teleporter. I don't think bots will make the jump from building to building. Well, at least not on the level I played (Adept). Though I love that "MEGA jump" from the green building to the main one.

The bots make all the jumps (even at low difficulties), but in general they are cautious about doing so. It does not hurt gameplay much. When the bots want to pursue you, they'll take jump pads as needed. I just wish they would go for the berserk and shield belt more often. Maybe a teleporter would get them to travel more, but it would not fit the theme of the level.

I like to take that mega jump and rain flak shells down on the players below... though I'm not sure I've ever actually hit anyone.

3. You might also want to think about releasing it as 2 smaller maps. I think each building can stand on it's own and make for nicer smaller battles.

Someone else mentioned that the Garden building would be a good stand-alone map. I may release one or both buildings as separate maps, but given that the style of the map is built around the jump pads and the contrast between the buildings, it might be too plain with only one building accessible.

 

[Odedge]

Any suggestions on different screenshots to use? I'll need some for the final release thread, and I'd like to have ones that accurately represent the map.

I think one overview pic would be fine and some like this... I would be a bit higher though. Anything to show that there is some vertical, twisty, turning routes.

[SCREENSHOT]http://www.flickr.com/photos/15292857@N08/4490558287/[/SCREENSHOT]

Maybe a teleporter would get them to travel more, but it would not fit the theme of the level.

I hear you, unless you found a way to make it fit the map, like an "elevator" of sorts. You walk into the elevator and teleport?

I like to take that mega jump and rain flak shells down on the players below... though I'm not sure I've ever actually hit anyone.

Lol, does it matter if you do?

Someone else mentioned that the Garden building would be a good stand-alone map. I may release one or both buildings as separate maps, but given that the style of the map is built around the jump pads and the contrast between the buildings, it might be too plain with only one building accessible.

As long as you release the map in it's original form, I don't see a problem. I think the smaller building could make a "1 on 1" map. Since the bots might be hesitant to make the jump, you have to have more bots to have a fairly populate game. This could over populate one building too much? If that makes sense.

 

[SuperAlgae]

I like to take that mega jump and rain flak shells down on the players below... though I'm not sure I've ever actually hit anyone.

Lol, does it matter if you do?

Nope. I don't let practicality get in the way of my fun... though speaking of fun, I recently picked up the berserk while using double-enforcers. Now that was a bast. I highly recommend it. If you are not lucky enough to find a dropped enforcer, there is an enforcer pickup on the sniper's perch. (There is a jump pad to it on the lower ledge of the garden building near the far back corner.)

As long as you release the map in it's original form, I don't see a problem. I think the smaller building could make a "1 on 1" map. Since the bots might be hesitant to make the jump, you have to have more bots to have a fairly populate game. This could over populate one building too much? If that makes sense.

I haven't had too much problem with uneven bot distribution between the two buildings, and I've played with both the min and max recommended player counts of 6 and 12. I think that if too many players spawn on one building, then it does not take long for someone to die and then most likely spawn in the other building.

However, it would be nice to have a version that works with lower player counts. I am thinking that I could use kismet to make one or the other building be out-of-bounds depending on the player count. Players could still go to the out-of-bounds building, but if they stay for more than a few seconds, then they get a warning and then get obliterated. Maybe I'll do that in a "special edition" version of the map at some point.

 

[SkaarjMaster]

Any chance this is going final soon?

 

[SuperAlgae]

Any chance this is going final soon?

2 weeks.

I've been pounding out some of the last issues with the guys over at UOF. I just haven't had a lot of time to work on it.

I resolved the issues with kismet in online games, and now I'm just doing a couple minor things before releasing.

 

[stevelois]

2 weeks, that's cool he he