Debate: is realistic the bulk system? (ra3, please?!)

[yurch]

and just because you have been playing INF since 2.75 does'nt make you an autority or give you the right to act in this manner.

It also doesn't mean he should be written off sheerly because he re-registered his name. Which is why he made that comment.

 

[popojan]

As a result it's crucial to understand that bulk is not weight.

I guess the suggested system does not imply the way bulk should by acquired from weight, volume etc. but the way it should be used to influence stamina drop rate. The more planks of wood you carry the faster your stamina drops...

Everything in the game will ever be just an approximation, if the present one works fine there is no need to hash things over and over, Beppo is right, sure, we should focus our effort in a different and more important direction...

 

[salad]

i think kw and the elaphant man should get together and make there own mod since they seem to know everything! so much easier to tear apart someone elses work and not create something. typical bs stuff. 'i know so much! look at me!' why are u so convinced u are right about everything??

elaphant man, why do u need to jump on the wagonband of a cocky guy like this? same person maybe, new name??? no other supoort so u make it?? bulk system WORKS now, is fine, models real life as end result, but NOOO, u know better! make ur own game!!! i bet no1 plays!

 

[Beppo]

No new evidence to refute his argument has been brought forth to refute KW's point. Once again, I'm going to refrain from arguing his point.

nobody asked you to refrain anything here...

Well, to end your haughty discrimination as fast as possible: I've been playing Infiltration since version 2.75 was released. I'm not going to discuss the merits of KW's argument, especially as some here apparently still don't understand what he's saying or why his evidence is relevant.

If I really wanted to discriminate you then I would have done it in another way. And believe it or not I was the lead programmer in the days you started playing... and I guess developing INF is something different than 'just' playing it. So I guess I have a bit more of experience in this sector than you have... or do you haveyour own mod running somewhere?

As to Beppo's innappropriate behavior...
THAT is clearly a threat against KW.

Oh boy, grow up man. If I would want to then I would be able to do much more than just closing this thread. And this was no threatening at all. Just telling that I'm able to, nothing more.

Treating a forum member and respected player in this way is just wrong.

Nice, and how do you treat me or our team here? Aren't we respected developers and players alltogether? Do you treat us with respect at all? Guess not... else you wouldn't speak up this way...

And to KW simply "beating a dead horse:" KW posted empirical evidence illustrating his point AFTER Beppo made the claim that the argument was "going nowhere". Although his explanation of the data was rather limited, certainly at least some readers could extrapolate the important point his data makes (yes, I break my own rule against reiterating his argument here): that a man with a "45 bulk" loadout will be in exactly the same condition as an unburdened man after jogging 499 (and presumably 500) meters, which is not an insignificant distance to cover.

Don't want to step on your toes but what are you doing for a living? Police, judge, advocate/attorney/lawyer or a student of mathematics, physics or something alike? The term empirical evidence was somehow funny to read in such a forum thread. Anyway, you should maybe read the whole thing starting with the first post and you will see that nothing presented here (from either side) is something worth to be named evidence. And to assume that I have not understood his point of view is simply wrong too. All I'm saying is that INF has another point of view on this issue than he has. And ours is based on the way INF was designed and what the system was and is trying to archive... to represent a soldier with his field equipment... and not a sports car - liked that comparison btw.

So, if this discussion continues to go nowhere - oh yes, that's my personal opinion. And I guess I have the right to have my own - then this thread will either be moved to the correct spot - so that another moderator can have some fun with it - or it will simply be closed by me - oh yeah I luv closing bs threads, muhahahaha. [/sarcasm] <- for the ones that needed it.

Beppo

 

[LIGHTFIGHTER]

That is common sense. BUT it is NOT the way it works in infiltration (I just tested it). I think we can all agree that 45 bulk is "a bunch o' gear." In infiltration, the soldier with 45 bulk runs at the same speed as a soldier with 0 bulk.

Thats right folks, bulk DOES NOTHING until you get over 45. How can anyone defend that as being realistic??

this missing factor is "what were you doing before you spawned" If you were carrying 4 claymores then you start off tired because you were carrying that stuff with you as you spawned.......and when you drop it you have to wait to rest up

Also the point being made is that you would be more agile with just a pistol but that doesn't mean you can run as fast or get winded fast where you would notice carriing a m16 and few mags

If you ran a race butt asre naked...........would you be faster than if you had on garments????

 

[popojan]

Every other post is only obscurring the general problem. We need to compare theoretical systems (approximations, which are trade-off between accuracy and complexity) and RL thing.... Anyway, as we have only subjective clues instead of RL experimental data this comparison cannot be done objectively.
So talking about evidence is silly on either side...

Btw I do programming a bit and realize how Beppo feels being asked to rework almost from scratch something he has been working on and testing for such a long time. Time will tell whether there will be a natural improvement of the bulk system in the future or the current one will show as good enough.

 

[popojan]

If you ran a race but are naked...........would you be faster than if you had on garments????

If you swam 100m naked... would you be faster than if you had your garments on (garments, not swimming trunks)?
Comparing swimming to running is the same nonsense as comparing garments to 45 bulk loadout. Neither proves anything. These are just extreme examples that cannot be generally extrapolated w/o experimental data...

 

[NTKB]

Hehe I like the bulk system now. I dont care how I breath or move. If my gun points at the enemy and I shoot and I kill it it works fine. Also if im moving slower then the rest then let the enemy come to me. Ill still take his head off !

Liked everyones arguments here and how it dissolved into the classic INF flame fest. hehe.

Oh and ive known hannible for a long time hes not a noob. I even called him a noob the other day for beating me and he got real pissed.

 

[popojan]

Liked everyones arguments here and how it dissolved into the classic INF flame fest. hehe.

Debating is a sport. If this thread annoys developpers (I guess it must) it should be moved to Off-topic to let others freely continue...
As for the sport - we should use valid arguments instead of flaming...

 

[Beppo]

ok, if you really want to discuss this bs further then go to OT or whatever but leave this place clean of banging heads ...

I have my opinion, my point of view and the team and beta testers have one too. We agreed on the current system. So, the current system has some rules based on reasons already described to death here and in our point of view they are right on the mark and reflecting the real thing pretty good.

Some others here have another opinion, another point of view. They tried to explain it and I guess all here have fully understood how their point of view actually is.

So, we all discussed about the different point of views... in a style that gets and was always popular here. The ones complaining about something start with "this is wrong, stupid, a bug, bs" or whatever else they come up with. Then after throwing the nade other community members our guys from the INF team or beta crew show up and try to explain why specific things were implemented in this or that way. Well a discussion would now allow to argue about the different positions and maybe would allow to grant the other sides opinion with what it is... the opinion of the other side. But, we are speaking about the oh so glory I know everthing better than you guys here that then simply get upset that we do not jump over to their opinion freely and with all the pleasure the world can hold. So, the bashing begins, telling us that we are stupid, talk bs aso and they do not even try to understand why we have implemented the feature this way and not another way. This then is getting pretty rediculous most times cause valid arguments do no longer show up. It is all bitching and flaming about minor or minimal details in addition to personal attacks aso aso. Then at some point we, the official side, no longer want to discuss about something further cause both sides have moved not a single inch or found no common sense or whatever at all. So we start to post exactly this... the thread or discussion is going nowhere. Then the bitching continues of course and we would be able to talk about why the one pixel in the upper left corner is brown and not tan for the whole next year.

So, before I get upset about this crap going further I decide to step back from this post altogether. But cause this would only start another flame fest posting so long and so often that someone feels to be forced to post again to then continue the stuff into the next century I will simply do what I have already said that I will do if this stuff continues to loop forever.

Consider this thread closed, period.

If you want to 'talk' further about this issue... do it on OT please, thanks.

Beppo