Stephen Totilo at MTV's Multiplayer blog talked with Cliff Bleszinski at the D.I.C.E summit who had some interesting things to say about his state of mind concerning game development.
CliffyB Talks Game Development
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"...the PC is kind of the secondary part of what we’re doing..."
Finally they admitted it. (Which doesn't change the fact that CoD4, TF2, Portal, etc are NOT the "you click on things" games...)
Finally they admitted it. (Which doesn't change the fact that CoD4, TF2, Portal, etc are NOT the "you click on things" games...)
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IMHO the term "AAA" is overused by the game industry. And why in Cliffy's opinion to people play browser games so much? Maybe because there don't like Sims/WoW and there are no other quality, erm sorry, AAA games on the PC to enjoy.
The term "self-fulfilling prophecy" comes to mind...
The term "self-fulfilling prophecy" comes to mind...
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Yes, but that is three games out of 50 or so that have been released recently. The reason that happens, though, is because people not only don't focus on PC, they don't release for PC. It could be a pretty even mix.
Anyway, it's not surprising to see Cliffy say this.
Anyway, it's not surprising to see Cliffy say this.
I totally disagree with cliffy, and I guess he forgot about all the good games that valve has made over the years that are all more popular then anything epic. Though, I guess they won't advertise for their 'competitors'.
first thing that came to mind? PC is our bread and butter.
even though it wasn't cliffyb who said that.
but i have to agree - at last someone admits it. it's sad but i guess we've known it all along
even though it wasn't cliffyb who said that.
but i have to agree - at last someone admits it. it's sad but i guess we've known it all along
Hey, I don't care which platform the game is on as long as it's good.
However by "good" I do include aspects such as good controls and additional content, something which is far easier to do on a PC (for fps games, anyway). Some other issues I have with console gaming is communication, updates/patches, modding, and games being obsolete once you ditch the console unless you get lucky with a backwards compability.
These are all things which apply to the UT series, so it's definately disappointing if they go this route. Still, just make sure the games are good, and I'm up for it.
However by "good" I do include aspects such as good controls and additional content, something which is far easier to do on a PC (for fps games, anyway). Some other issues I have with console gaming is communication, updates/patches, modding, and games being obsolete once you ditch the console unless you get lucky with a backwards compability.
These are all things which apply to the UT series, so it's definately disappointing if they go this route. Still, just make sure the games are good, and I'm up for it.
Not good to hear, but we did all know that was their path after Gears.
Funny thing is I've never bought a single sims type game. Ever.
The closest I came to point and click is buying Shogun Total War and playing (though not very long) a random MMORPG.
Thank god for indy developers that still provide a load of PC titles in all gaming categories and game made for the PC. And thank god for devs like Valve who haven't totally forgotten their PC grass roots.
And just as a side note, I find it a bit lame of developers to blame the platform for the misgivings of their game. If they would spend equal amounts of time trying to get it right for all platforms they would do better. If you don't invest as much time getting the game right on a given platform, it is clear the end result won't be as good as on the platform you did spend as much time on, and people will end up not buying into it, on the "secondary" platform.
Funny thing is I've never bought a single sims type game. Ever.
The closest I came to point and click is buying Shogun Total War and playing (though not very long) a random MMORPG.
Thank god for indy developers that still provide a load of PC titles in all gaming categories and game made for the PC. And thank god for devs like Valve who haven't totally forgotten their PC grass roots.
And just as a side note, I find it a bit lame of developers to blame the platform for the misgivings of their game. If they would spend equal amounts of time trying to get it right for all platforms they would do better. If you don't invest as much time getting the game right on a given platform, it is clear the end result won't be as good as on the platform you did spend as much time on, and people will end up not buying into it, on the "secondary" platform.
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Haha.. "pc is secondary"
Well, Well, Well.... That sure explains alot. It definitely explains why gears of war for pc ran like an un-beta-tested piece of trash(the only game that required work to play), as well as why ut3 was consolified and rushed out incomplete for pc.
Well, Well, Well.... That sure explains alot. It definitely explains why gears of war for pc ran like an un-beta-tested piece of trash(the only game that required work to play), as well as why ut3 was consolified and rushed out incomplete for pc.
Well this is the most disheartening, and yet not unexpected thing i've read this year... Epic are one of the only PC dev's that I've willingly shelled out full price for the games from, and I sure as hell am not shelling out for a 360 or POS3 to play FPS & 3rd person shooters with clumsy, inferior controls, not to mention slower locked framerates in many cases.
I've been hoping epic would pull their finger out and support/fix GoW for PC, but I guess we aren't important enough anymore.
You wouldn't the powerhouse you are today if it wasn't for PC's Cliffy/Epic...
I've been hoping epic would pull their finger out and support/fix GoW for PC, but I guess we aren't important enough anymore.
You wouldn't the powerhouse you are today if it wasn't for PC's Cliffy/Epic...
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Gears sold well for its unprecedented marketing machinery,
i didnt see the same on unreal.
Well, this time with gow 2, people already knows the product, lets see if can sell 4.5 millions of copies.
ALso pc has disvantage of easy piracy.
i didnt see the same on unreal.
Well, this time with gow 2, people already knows the product, lets see if can sell 4.5 millions of copies.
ALso pc has disvantage of easy piracy.
It's a sad reminder of how game business works with The Sims. I bought it (bargain bin, in my defense) and was addicted for a few days but haven't given it more time than that. It's just depressing looking at it and it's shovelware expansion's sales just repeatedly shoot off the charts.
Same thing with a bunch of other games like pokemon iterations and Daisy's Horse Stable Diary outselling stuff like Bioshock and what have you. Makes me emo.
No it's because in reality the majority of gamers that play browser-based games are the same kind of people that were/are willing to buy the Wii or "the Sims"-style games/experiences ...
ie : not us gaming-geeks, but the kind of people that watch 'as the world turns' and similar series on tv.
Sites like Zylom reach an audience of 13 Million players each month in Europe ( source : http://info.zylom.com/media/ )
That makes a title like Gears of War look pretty pathetic by comparison.
Try and compare that to the number of players in any other game and you wil realize how small the audience for pc-based games really is.
I can completely understand going where the profit is. This shouldnt be any surprise to anyone at all. I personally dont care if epic makes a hundred games for ps3/360 but, the five games you guys make for the pc should be a 'pc' game! A pc game should be designed around a pc in mind like the 'web-faced interface' and not a simplified, stripped of all features, consolized port UI. Epic has robbed what we devoted pc fans has played for so many years and has given it to the console market.
If epic believes that the pc is a dead end 'dissarayed' market, then why contribute half-assed products and take away what your devoted fans cherished for so many years into making it even worse.
And don't tell me they were rushed, I don't buy that!
Anayways, im off to play Stalker
If epic believes that the pc is a dead end 'dissarayed' market, then why contribute half-assed products and take away what your devoted fans cherished for so many years into making it even worse.
And don't tell me they were rushed, I don't buy that!
Anayways, im off to play Stalker
I wonder if he forgot about how well Crysis is doing. A game that has even greater hardware demands from a developer who has been doing PC games as long as Epic and really doesn't have the type of reputation Epic used to have for incredible support of their product. But now with Crysis also readying Patch 1.2 for their game and also staying committed to the success of the game on the PC and also their awesome engine being the most advanced ... which means running on High end PCs now and in the future and pushing them to their max, Epic seems to be content to become just another console developer ...
Now there is no doubt who will always have the more advanced engine going forward as Epic can lower the requirements for how great their engine has to be if it is just going to start focusing on consoles. Crytek and Valve are basically it for us PC shooter fans now ... these are the only really good devs left that seem committed to seeing the PC remain as a viable gaming platform for AAA title mature shooter games. Thank goodness for them now that Epic has by all signs abandoned its old core audience in favor of the new console audience they have attracted with Gears and to a smaller degree UT3. It really seems to me that they see themselves as the new Bungie and in the future you can bet they will let other folks do the port to the PC or actually just continue to use the People Can Fly staff they picked up last year to do that job while they focus all the Epic talent on console related projects. Well I hope that id also stays committed to the PC ... it is really something to see this all happening with Epic but when you add up all the evidence what other conclusion can be made. Both of their console games are much more stable than the PC counterparts?
That is crazy ... and it really seems like they don't care about GoW on the PC and addressing some of the more serious issues with UT3. Plenty of folks still can't run it and it is still not nearly as stable or reliable of an engine as UE2.5 and I wonder if it ever will be. It really will be interesting to see the 360 version in comparison ... that will say even more ... and I bet the 360 version has working motion blur and has far less bugs than even the PS3 version. I am sure they are listening to all the complaints and are going to do their best to make the 360 the most bug free version ... although the whole mod issue is going to affect the long term replayability of UT3. But given the new approach Epic has I don't think that even matters to them. Seems to me they are already adapting to a new paradigm so that all they care about is selling millions of copies of their games at a time and then come out with a sequel/continuation to a game within two-three years and sell millions more ... and all they have to do is have two or three good titles to keep this cycle going so that eventually the PC games are pretty much an afterthought instead of being the focus like they used to be.
Modding becomes less and less important when this is your model ... I wonder if mod tools in the future will just mainly be a map editor ... I really think with UT3 we are seeing the end of an era in terms of the relationship Epic has/had with PC modders. If the 360 numbers are big enough even with the mod issue being unresolved then you can bet this is the way things are going to go ... Epic will just create their own version of Forge and be content to give gamers that to change the gameplay.
Now there is no doubt who will always have the more advanced engine going forward as Epic can lower the requirements for how great their engine has to be if it is just going to start focusing on consoles. Crytek and Valve are basically it for us PC shooter fans now ... these are the only really good devs left that seem committed to seeing the PC remain as a viable gaming platform for AAA title mature shooter games. Thank goodness for them now that Epic has by all signs abandoned its old core audience in favor of the new console audience they have attracted with Gears and to a smaller degree UT3. It really seems to me that they see themselves as the new Bungie and in the future you can bet they will let other folks do the port to the PC or actually just continue to use the People Can Fly staff they picked up last year to do that job while they focus all the Epic talent on console related projects. Well I hope that id also stays committed to the PC ... it is really something to see this all happening with Epic but when you add up all the evidence what other conclusion can be made. Both of their console games are much more stable than the PC counterparts?
That is crazy ... and it really seems like they don't care about GoW on the PC and addressing some of the more serious issues with UT3. Plenty of folks still can't run it and it is still not nearly as stable or reliable of an engine as UE2.5 and I wonder if it ever will be. It really will be interesting to see the 360 version in comparison ... that will say even more ... and I bet the 360 version has working motion blur and has far less bugs than even the PS3 version. I am sure they are listening to all the complaints and are going to do their best to make the 360 the most bug free version ... although the whole mod issue is going to affect the long term replayability of UT3. But given the new approach Epic has I don't think that even matters to them. Seems to me they are already adapting to a new paradigm so that all they care about is selling millions of copies of their games at a time and then come out with a sequel/continuation to a game within two-three years and sell millions more ... and all they have to do is have two or three good titles to keep this cycle going so that eventually the PC games are pretty much an afterthought instead of being the focus like they used to be.
Modding becomes less and less important when this is your model ... I wonder if mod tools in the future will just mainly be a map editor ... I really think with UT3 we are seeing the end of an era in terms of the relationship Epic has/had with PC modders. If the 360 numbers are big enough even with the mod issue being unresolved then you can bet this is the way things are going to go ... Epic will just create their own version of Forge and be content to give gamers that to change the gameplay.
Let's see... There is Portal, and ...
erm, thats about it.
Epic has ... erm ... GoW maybe? haven't played it yet.
But you're right 1 > 0
(but don't forget that Valve is still much larger than Epic, even after Epic absorbed People Can Fly and Scion)
Oh, and hello new troll/flame thread.
Anuban, what you say in the last paragraph is true, but, if the level of modifiabiliy base in the future remains at least, the same on ut3, where you can make levels, scripts, change source code and make total conversions, i think it is enough.
Lets hope this minimum be achieved on the future.
Althought i didnt believe ut3 is so consolized as many of you says and that epic has it abandoned for pc. Epic is supporting it very well, is releasing good patches and good tools for it.
All we have on ut2k4 remains on ut3. This minimun should be enough to make good mods/tcs.
On the other side.
Its my opinion that gow has been sold better on console than in pc because the pc version has million of unresolved bugs. The game has not been taken seriously by the company, so customers have not taken it seriously.
The other day i came to the game shop and i saw some pc GOW units on the 'almost new' section, because lots of people have returned back to the shop... (and this is the game that has sold 4.5 millions on 360 with more maps,i was like o_0 .... definetly something is wrong with gow pc ).
On ut3 the problem is that the game focuses too much on multiplayer combat, what is good for us, harcore gamers, but not for the mass.
Mass effect,halo, crysis, gears of war and bioshock have proven that nowadays, people wants a good single player story.
Maybe its time to back to the roots, develop a good , inmersive, with lots of good graphic effects single player campaign, but with multiplayer too, and release Unreal 3,
and the survey on the main site gives me the reason. PPl wants unreal 3.
The competitive sport is too much stressful, and people doesnt have what it takes to be all the day making frags.
EDIT: and do not think on sims-like games. Its a whole different genre. This company is for different games.
Lets hope this minimum be achieved on the future.
Althought i didnt believe ut3 is so consolized as many of you says and that epic has it abandoned for pc. Epic is supporting it very well, is releasing good patches and good tools for it.
All we have on ut2k4 remains on ut3. This minimun should be enough to make good mods/tcs.
On the other side.
Its my opinion that gow has been sold better on console than in pc because the pc version has million of unresolved bugs. The game has not been taken seriously by the company, so customers have not taken it seriously.
The other day i came to the game shop and i saw some pc GOW units on the 'almost new' section, because lots of people have returned back to the shop... (and this is the game that has sold 4.5 millions on 360 with more maps,i was like o_0 .... definetly something is wrong with gow pc ).
On ut3 the problem is that the game focuses too much on multiplayer combat, what is good for us, harcore gamers, but not for the mass.
Mass effect,halo, crysis, gears of war and bioshock have proven that nowadays, people wants a good single player story.
Maybe its time to back to the roots, develop a good , inmersive, with lots of good graphic effects single player campaign, but with multiplayer too, and release Unreal 3,
and the survey on the main site gives me the reason. PPl wants unreal 3.
The competitive sport is too much stressful, and people doesnt have what it takes to be all the day making frags.
EDIT: and do not think on sims-like games. Its a whole different genre. This company is for different games.
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