Bush and freedom.......

[Derelan]

i love how people interrupt themselves when they post. people will stop themselves to make sure they know that whatever the other person is thinking about them at the moment, its wrong, it goes deeper than that.

thats whats wrong with the world in the first place. people are too concerned about what everyone else is thinking.

the world will find peace, maybe not in our generation, and maybe a lot of people will die before then.

 

[The_Pikeman]

Although I find Bush's actions questionable I must admit that I'm very dissapointed with the goverment on this. Anyone who thinks the innocent have nothing to fear really should take a look at what our goverment is doing. We supposidly "gave" the goverment the power to censor the media to help this so called "war on terror" and all they have done is use it to cover thier arses making sure this gets very little media coverage. This is why people fought against the identity card bill.
-How.

 

[Pipe_Dream]

I guess 511 wants "truth be told." Well, you got it. You're a ***** with a gun! Fuk you faggot!


That is all.

Edit: I just finished the reading the rest of your post, sorry. I respect you too. I saw retard and got pissed.

Edit pt. 2 I don't like Kerry or Michael Moore. I'm pro abortion (though not my choice) and very pro gun (I have many).

 

[Pipe_Dream]

Do you mean killed or murdered? Sorry, I don't think flying a plane into a building compares to being a casualty in a combat zone. .

Who decides this, you? War is war!

 

[Pipe_Dream]

Goddamnit, 5/11

I tried to go to bed and couldn't, you got me so fired the fuk up. You distorted my fukn point. Don't spin my sh1t. My comparison to 9/11 and the Iraqi civilians was just that... civilians! and then, if you read my post, I said that the Iraqis had "nothing to do with anything," just like the 9/11 civilians.

I don't give a fuk about politics or the lying saks of sh1t that sell them, I'm comfortable with myself. I don't need anybody or any abstract train of thought to define me.

Yes, you're fukn right I have "emotional ties" to this BS. Anyone who supports the war should carry their fat-asses to Iraq and let us get on with our missions. I'm going to bed now and will not respond to this again. Just do me a favor and read my post before letting somone spin my sh1t.

 

[5eleven]

Sorry Pipe, I wasn't trying to spin what you said - I was just expressing what I thought about it. Having a bad day perhaps. Don't let it get to you man, it's just the internet, and we're all retards browsing and posting in these forums that mean absolutely dick.

Derelan, I don't know what you meant, and I don't know if/how that was directed at me.

Pikeman, I'm not getting your point........I was under the impression that the media "agrees" to certain amounts and forms of censorship when requested to withold certain aspects of their reporting. That, I guess, would be the fault of the media, not the government. Hell, if I could get by with only presenting my side of the story when I screwed up, I would do it too.

 

[The_Pikeman]

Pikeman, I'm not getting your point........I was under the impression that the media "agrees" to certain amounts and forms of censorship when requested to withold certain aspects of their reporting. That, I guess, would be the fault of the media, not the government. Hell, if I could get by with only presenting my side of the story when I screwed up, I would do it too.

Well supposidly this act was to stop the media reporting things like the location of troops, plans to attack etc. but they are using it to stop the media reporting something that has nothing to do with the safty of the troops or anything.
-How.

 

[omni]

Bush loves freedom. Bush loves peace, democracy, the constitution, and puppy dogs! Oh and 2 + 2 = 5

 

[Nightmare]

Allawi: Iraq Abuses As Bad As Under Saddam

LONDON - Human rights abuses in
Iraq are as bad now as they were under
Saddam Hussein and could become even worse, the country's former interim prime minister said in an interview published Sunday.

"People are doing the same as Saddam's time and worse," Ayad Allawi told The Observer newspaper. "It is an appropriate comparison."

Allawi accused fellow Shiites in the government of being responsible for death squads and secret torture centers and said the brutality of elements in the new security forces rivals that of Saddam's secret police.

Although Allawi is a Shiite, he is secular in his politics and is running separately from the Shiite religious parties in the Dec. 15 election. His comments appear to be an attempt to appeal to Sunni voters, who claim their community has been unfairly targeted by the Shiite-led security forces.

"People are remembering the days of Saddam. These were the precise reasons that we fought Saddam and now we are seeing the same thing," the newspaper quoted him as saying.

Iraqi officials have played down reports of rights abuses, insisting they are lies created by their enemies.

 

[5eleven]

Does anyone here even know the differences between Shia and Sunni Muslims?

Aside from the obvious, that Saddam is a Sunni and ruled with hatred for Shiites, I'll tell you what I know. Muslim does not equal Muslim in all parts of the Middle East. Shiites commemorate Imam Hussein, who I believe was a grandson of the prophet Muhammad. He was killed after approaching Karbala and instead of being greeted by followers, he was captured, imprisoned and beheaded. Hussein is believed to be a symbol against tyranny and oppression for the Shia people. If you've ever seen video of Muslims cutting their foreheads and bleeding while on their pilgrimmage to Karbala, 40 days after Hussein's capture - those are Shiites. The Shiites also only believe in the fourth religious head of state, Ali, because he was allegedly a direct descendant of Muhammad.

Conversely, the Sunni only believe in the first four religious heads of state (aka caliphates). They also do not believe in the reverance and commemoration of Imam Hussein. The pilgrimmage to Karbala, very important to Shiite Muslims was not allowed during Saddam Hussein's rule. To some Muslims and Muslim sects, if you do not believe literally in the Q'uran as written, you are not a Muslim.

Now, I'm not Muslim, and I realize that I have paraphrased a very complex set of circumstances.

But two things about this article do not surprise me:

Allawi accused fellow Shiites in the government of being responsible for death squads and secret torture centers and said the brutality of elements in the new security forces rivals that of Saddam's secret police.

Is it difficult to comprehend why the oppressed become the oppressors when an oppressive regime drawn through religious lines is removed?

Although Allawi is a Shiite, he is secular in his politics and is running separately from the Shiite religious parties in the Dec. 15 election. His comments appear to be an attempt to appeal to Sunni voters, who claim their community has been unfairly targeted by the Shiite-led security forces.

Hmmmm. Guess it doesn't really sound any different than Republican v. Democrat politics here in the states, now does it?
And by the way: Osama Bin Laden is a Sunni.

 

[Harrm]

but they are using it to stop the media reporting something that has nothing to do with the safty of the troops or anything.

Apparently, you don't understand the concept of a confidence war. In war, any bad press whatsoever is a direct threat to the troops, because it builds opposing propaganda. A lot of people say "I have faith in the troops, but I have no faith the war." That's sort of like getting a dozen apples and putting them in a basket you don't think will hold them. While they shouldn't be in that basket in the first place, they're already there, and standing around complaining about the basket isn't going to fix it. You've got to do something about it.

P.S. I respect your opinions.

Haha. Actually, a personal goal of mine is one day to party with Georges' girls and then slip 'em a rufee. I'd put that ish on my gravestone.

Nightmares' post.

Isn't Iyad Allawi that guy who told MI6 about all those "weapons of mass destruction" that Iraq had? Also, he has British citizenship and has lived about half his life in the UK. No offense to Allawi supporters, but I've seen urinal cakes with more credibility than him.

Iraqi officials have played down reports of rights abuses, insisting they are lies created by their enemies.

I don't understand, there's really no proof of either in this article. I don't want anyone to mistake this article as legitimate news. This is an opinon piece. Being said, shame on you Nightmare for being too shallow to foster an opinion of your own.

--Harrm

 

[Nightmare]

I don't understand, there's really no proof of either in this article. I don't want anyone to mistake this article as legitimate news.

It was legitimate enough to turn up on Yahoo News through AP. Not that you should take that as proof, of course.

Posting that thing was mostly a comment on Bush and freedom. IMO he doesn't care about it at all despite all the rhetoric. Is that a clear enough opinion for you?

 

[5eleven]

Isn't Iyad Allawi that guy who told MI6 about all those "weapons of mass destruction" that Iraq had?

I thought that was Ahmed Chalabi. I thought Allawi was a former Ba'athist Shiite. A slight contradiction, like Tariq Aziz being a Ba'athist Christian. But I guess I'm confusing political alliances with religious faith.

 

[Arethusa]

Yeah, that was Chalabi, not Allawi. Two very, very different people.

[edit]

Apparently, you don't understand the concept of a confidence war. In war, any bad press whatsoever is a direct threat to the troops, because it builds opposing propaganda. A lot of people say "I have faith in the troops, but I have no faith the war." That's sort of like getting a dozen apples and putting them in a basket you don't think will hold them. While they shouldn't be in that basket in the first place, they're already there, and standing around complaining about the basket isn't going to fix it. You've got to do something about it.

Fuck you.

There is a very real chance I will have to join the army soon. The idea that one cannot differentiate support for the members of the military and how the military is used is nothing short of insulting and astonishingly asinine.

 

[omni]

Apparently, you don't understand the concept of a confidence war. In war, any bad press whatsoever is a direct threat to the troops, because it builds opposing propaganda. A lot of people say "I have faith in the troops, but I have no faith the war." That's sort of like getting a dozen apples and putting them in a basket you don't think will hold them. While they shouldn't be in that basket in the first place, they're already there, and standing around complaining about the basket isn't going to fix it. You've got to do something about it.

Sorry but that sounds like more spin to me.. so you think media coverage of the war is a "direct threat" to the troops. Really? You believe that? So a journalist who goes out and shows the reality of war (which is never pretty) is a direct threat to Johnny Marine out there? If he, for example, captures Johnny on video, shooting a bus full of civilians thinking they were terrorists... that's propaganda? No, that's just real reporting (although it may be used as propaganda). The direct threat are the guys with the guns who are not happy with foreign occupation. Journalists are only armed with the images they show, which can incite others and provoke angry responses but are not capable of killing marines (which means they are not a "direct threat" as you said). If you had to blame someone other than the insurgency for the dangerous situation the troops are in, then blame Bush and his political allies for sending them into the disaster in the first place. They at least have some culpability for using them as chess pawns to advance their own interests (which are never altruistic).

 

[geogob]

That comment, omni, reminds me of the footage of a US marine shooting an injured iraqi insurgent/civilian (we'll never really know I guess).

 

[Arethusa]

If we're thinking of the same one, that Marine was deservedly court martialed, though I don't know what came of it.

 

[Derelan]

paranoia....

 

[The_Pikeman]

Apparently, you don't understand the concept of a confidence war. In war, any bad press whatsoever is a direct threat to the troops, because it builds opposing propaganda.....

I hope that was sarcasim .......
-How.

 

[Saladin]

mmm, what was done in kabul was obviously not a mistake then, and even more obviously not a mistake now.

it was stupid.
it sucks.

probably no one will do anything about this, itll just suck some more.