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gal-z

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Third_Rail said:
Barrel length, if different in two otherwise identical weapons (caliber, twistrate in barrel, muzzle crown, etc.), does effect velocity, which effects range and ft/lbs. Ft/lbs could, I suppose, be taken as power, although very rarely is that said, due to the fact that raw energy doesn't mean as much as bullet design.
But raw energy will mean more damage with same bullet unless u overpenetrate.
What affects a bullet besdies the bullet itself is the barrel length, twist, design (heavy barrels and "floating" barrels for accuracy) and the amount of gasses that go back. So basically the difference u get with different weapons with same ammo is velocity and accuracy (which end up affecting range and ballistic arc). All these stats are stuff every weapon company must know - the question is, can u find it on the web? I have offsets for several M16 configurations (though ss109 is zeroed to 250m and not 300m like americans do it) and I know www.ammo-oracle.com (I think that's the address) has arcs for SS109 (300m zero) and m185 (250m zero) but doesn't have sight height and doesn't give u exact numbers, just a drawn graph for the arc.
I can tell u for sure M24 exact ballistics if you want, and if I can find it, I may be able to give u SR-25 and SR-86 ballistics (I had them but I'm afraid I lost it).
EDIT: Link corrected.
 
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Lt.

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Aug 11, 2004
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Bushwack said:
Its the ROF{read: rate of fire} you guys keep misinterpreting as being an 'uberweapon' NOT the damage, it has been stated time and again by the team members, the coder and numerous other peoples that the ballistic code is EXACTLY the same as the SS weapons, NO DIFFERENCE, so please, by all means bother SS with making thier 5.56mm weapons Uber. :eek:
Less powerful than a full barreled 5.56mm weapon....hmmm, since the weapons in question are firing the EXACT SAME AMMUNITION for all intents and purposes, this is a mis-statement of factual and contextual information, power has no bearing on range or accuracy, which would be really waht the issue would be with a shorter barreled weapon as opposed to a full sized weapon, but then again, a lot can be corrected by the rifling or twist, as well as several other factors which can influence what everyone keeps assuming is the weapons 'power' factors.
Bush, I did not misinterpret anything.
I do not feel the M4A1 is a 'super-weapon', what I take issue with is the inconsistency of its base damage value and I fail to see how the weapons ROF is relevant to that end.
Secondly, I am fully aware of which 'ballistic code' the M4A1 uses. It uses INFc_BallisticProj_FAMAS and deals a base of 40 damage, 35 when suppressed. And I, like many others, feel that it deserves its own bullet type. A bullet type that deals 35 damage (like the other short barreled 5.56, a noticeable departure) and 30 damage when suppressed.


now, as for your spiel about barrel length and muzzle velocity:
a longer barrel allows the propellant a longer burn time and ensures the full expansion of the gas, providing the bullet with greater speed. a shorter barrel, of the same twist, firing an identical round releases the bullet much sooner at a much lower muzzle velocity, along with a noticeable quantity of unburned and still-burning propellant.



for the purposes of our INF abstraction, when the round did not change, a reduction in barrel length did change the base damage value noticeably. And while I can appreciate the simplicity of using the FAMAS for its suppressed subclass, the M4 should perform the same as it's carbine brother...

M16A2 : ~500 mm : 40 damage
FamasG2 : ~500 mm : 40 damage

SG551 : ~300 mm : 35 damage
M4A1 : ~300 mm : 35 damage

...and not be on par with the 500mm long weapons.
 

Vega-don

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Lt. said:
Bush, I did not misinterpret anything.
I do not feel the M4A1 is a 'super-weapon', what I take issue with is the inconsistency of its base damage value and I fail to see how the weapons ROF is relevant to that end.
Secondly, I am fully aware of which 'ballistic code' the M4A1 uses. It uses INFc_BallisticProj_FAMAS and deals a base of 40 damage, 35 when suppressed. And I, like many others, feel that it deserves its own bullet type. A bullet type that deals 35 damage (like the other short barreled 5.56, a noticeable departure) and 30 damage when suppressed.


now, as for your spiel about barrel length and muzzle velocity:
a longer barrel allows the propellant a longer burn time and ensures the full expansion of the gas, providing the bullet with greater speed. a shorter barrel, of the same twist, firing an identical round releases the bullet much sooner at a much lower muzzle velocity, along with a noticeable quantity of unburned and still-burning propellant.



for the purposes of our INF abstraction, when the round did not change, a reduction in barrel length did change the base damage value noticeably. And while I can appreciate the simplicity of using the FAMAS for its suppressed subclass, the M4 should perform the same as it's carbine brother...

M16A2 : ~500 mm : 40 damage
FamasG2 : ~500 mm : 40 damage

SG551 : ~300 mm : 35 damage
M4A1 : ~300 mm : 35 damage

...and not be on par with the 500mm long weapons.


you forgot one major factor
the M4A1 is american , therefore it has an automatic + 5 damage, because american is the best !! :lol:
 

Crowze

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None of the inf weapons have damage scaled depending on the distance, so unless we modify all the inf weapons to be in line with ours (which I don't think Sentry would like) then we can't do anything about it.

I also find it quite amusing that nobody has answered #1 or #2 yet.
 

ant75

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Jan 11, 2001
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As it seems Inf armory is gonna get bigger and bigger, i think it is time someone finds for good a decent way around the damn 32 loadouts limitation. Of course there's crowze's mutie, but it still has the problem of not having all loadouts accessible at once (switching back and forth between different presets can be pretty confusing). Maybe we could use crowze's system, but add a user interface so you'll know exactly where's any given loadout when you're looking for it ?
Or does this problem bring back again to modifying the core files ?
 
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gal-z

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None of the inf weapons have damage scaled depending on the distance, so unless we modify all the inf weapons to be in line with ours (which I don't think Sentry would like) then we can't do anything about it.
This is bad. I suppose we'll have to wait for the next inf version for it then :(
I said it before, and I'll say it again - what INF needs the most in its current state is improved weapon collision system and improved ballistics/damage. Both of which I understand cannot be fixed by a modders?
 

Lt.

Elitist bastard
Aug 11, 2004
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gal-z said:
improved ballistics/damage
Improved ballistics and damage? why not perfect ballistics/damage? ;)
I dream of an engine that could calculate penetration depth == to ballistic gelatin tests at any given point along the ballistic arc, all the way from muzzle to the bullet plunking into the dirt several hundred meters away.

now imagine the engine taking that penetration depth and tracing a permanent cavity thru your player model, breaking any bones in the way, and calculating a loss in bloodpressure based on how much virtual tissue was affected. more tissue shredded by the splintered bones, or perforated by multiple shots would drop bloodpressure faster, bullet paths that cross major arteries or organs would drop pressure even faster, and a shot to heart would cause an almost immediate drop of all blood pressure.

why do I dream of an engine that tracks virtual bloodpressure?

cause IRL when your brain does not get enough oxygen you pass out and die, thats why a bullet to the heart will kill you. To me, an engine that tracks bloodpressure and lowers this value until your player pawn loses consciousness would be the holy grail of realism. :)



(of course, the next step will be to make INFsteak taste juicy and delicious:D)
 

Bushwack

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Lt. said:
Bush, I did not misinterpret anything.
I do not feel the M4A1 is a 'super-weapon', what I take issue with is the inconsistency of its base damage value and I fail to see how the weapons ROF is relevant to that end.
Secondly, I am fully aware of which 'ballistic code' the M4A1 uses. It uses INFc_BallisticProj_FAMAS and deals a base of 40 damage, 35 when suppressed. And I, like many others, feel that it deserves its own bullet type. A bullet type that deals 35 damage (like the other short barreled 5.56, a noticeable departure) and 30 damage when suppressed.


now, as for your spiel about barrel length and muzzle velocity:
a longer barrel allows the propellant a longer burn time and ensures the full expansion of the gas, providing the bullet with greater speed. a shorter barrel, of the same twist, firing an identical round releases the bullet much sooner at a much lower muzzle velocity, along with a noticeable quantity of unburned and still-burning propellant.



for the purposes of our INF abstraction, when the round did not change, a reduction in barrel length did change the base damage value noticeably. And while I can appreciate the simplicity of using the FAMAS for its suppressed subclass, the M4 should perform the same as it's carbine brother...

M16A2 : ~500 mm : 40 damage
FamasG2 : ~500 mm : 40 damage

SG551 : ~300 mm : 35 damage
M4A1 : ~300 mm : 35 damage

...and not be on par with the 500mm long weapons.

*disclaimer*Firstly, my post wasnt directed at anyone, so if your taking it personal dont, you did misinterpret that apparently....." you guys" is plural, meaning more than one person, this has been over-discussed before and frankly, im tired of seeing the same thing repeated, disputed and argued over and over from both sides, its more than a dead horse, its friggin fossilized its done, its over, there is no more discussion about it, we do NOT plan to fix the M4, because it simply doesnt need fixing, the reason it doesnt is simply because if we change ours, it will require SS changin thiers.

Secondly, ROF= Rate of Fire, if your hit with 3 rounds per in under 2 seconds as opposed to 1 every second {assuming of course they are the same exact caliber}, which hit are you to assume makes greater damage to the target?

The M4 has a high rate of fire, its hitting the INF guy with more rounds in a shorter time span, thats what makes it better than the old M16a2, or the SIG, the FAMAS is a damn Bullet hose already as it is, noone whined about its ballistics to the best of my knowledge.

Lastly, id like to add to the ENTIRE COMMUNITY and noone in particular, that reactionary responses from any and all interaction we have had with the community, are either from one end of the spectrum, to the other, i started this thread, in the hopes that you all, as a community, would see we are still hard at work at bringing new life and new options to INF as it is in its current form, not to go running the dead horse over again and again, in the past, this type of community response has made us very wary of even posting any new information regarding anything we work on, i try to, when im ingame answer the questions as best i can and still try to play a decent game while im at it, not argue. I only build the models, i dont code, animate nor skin them, i do have some input on how they function though, from past experience, i also beleive in what this team does and stands for.
It is at this point in the thread, that id like any and all readers to reread the first post, and respond with any criticisms, suggestions or requests to the link provided in the original post.

Thank you for your continuing support.