A feature.

[ravens_hawk]

Shake that can combine man!
As a suggestion, for when resting (bipod deployed, what have you) why not have a small freeaim zone like what's done in INF now. Larger weapon movements would require the player to lean or move around the focal point (ie bipod.) This would seem to me to be the most intuitive/easy way of doing things...

 

[cracwhore]

That animation gets me all wet.

I can't fucking wait to have that much control over my character. I dedicate my time and computer to your cause.

On a side note, that looks ideal for third-person gaming. I'm curious to see how it 'feels' from the first person perspective as well.

 

[yurch]

First person, it just moves the camera about accordingly, nothing to write home about. (He is just standing in place, afterall) Should make an indicator for it, actually.

ravens_hawk (nice avatar ) yes, that might not be a bad idea, if not just to correct an odd bit of movement here and there. Figuring when to kick it in will be odd, though.

 

[Psychomorph]

@DeMachina:
Why creating a learning curve, even a small one, when you can keep the mouse movement as it is and make it easier to players.
The mouse was always controlling the field of view, you want to look to the right turn the mouse to the right.
When the weapon is lying on something you should still controll the view by the mouse, the fact that the body is leaning toward the opposite direction, is just a physical thing, that you even do not notice.
I´m personally against the reversed mouse, just my opinion, or make it optional (where I´m sure nobody would use the reversed mouse option anyway). Let the democracy win .



I think it is clear, that when the weapon is supported, the single mouse movement plays the role of the lean, strafe and duck/stand up keys at the same time and all in one, which are usually controlled by the lean, strafe and duck keys.

I mean if your weapon is supported, the body lean would allow you to move the weapon just slightly to the right, or left, cuz a real wide lean would lower your shoulder position and let you aim sideways+up, which is an uncomfortable position at all.
- The body lean (when mouse moved to the left, or right) allows you to turn the weapon slightly to the right, or left.
- To increase the weapon turning radius at all, you have to sidestep with the feets, which makes a circle strafe around the supported point of the weapon.
- To aim up you make a slight duck with your body, to aim down you stretch yourself a bit.

All the actions you do with separate keys, can be done by the mouse, the duck key could just give you the option to duck behind the thing where your weapon is supported at, the manual strafe keys, could make the circle strafe faster, because it is to impractical to make a 150° turn with the mouse (with a key you would just need to hold the strafe key).

On the other hand when the weapon is supported and the turn/lean/circlestrafe used via the mouse, the movement keys (only A,D,W and S) would let you move as usual and release the supported weapon mode keeping your weapon shouldered then (for example you want to escape, just strafe via the strafe key, or move backward via the movement key and you move as usual and don't have to deactivate the supported mode with a key).
The duck should keep you in the supported mode, but make a real and full duck.


To activate the supported mode I think they is no other simple way as to have a key. When you comne close to something where you can lay a weapon onto it (maybe marked with a symbol, or message in the HUD), than push the 'use key' to enable the supported mode.

 

[Rostam]

Oh good luck. It sounds great indeed. Not only would you have all the advantages of resting a weapon, you would also minimise your own target.
Reading your post, I actually got excited over this HL2 project.

 

[DeMachina]

@DeMachina:
Why creating a learning curve, even a small one, when you can keep the mouse movement as it is and make it easier to players.
The mouse was always controlling the field of view, you want to look to the right turn the mouse to the right.
When the weapon is lying on something you should still controll the view by the mouse, the fact that the body is leaning toward the opposite direction, is just a physical thing, that you even do not notice.
I´m personally against the reversed mouse, just my opinion, or make it optional (where I´m sure nobody would use the reversed mouse option anyway). Let the democracy win .

Simple, in most game, when using a bipod (stationnary MG should change much), the weapon you're using moves in the same direction your mouse does. However, you're body does not move (and as such, you remain the same target no matter how much you move your crossair around). With a weapon locked in this, if you use the same idea, when aiming right (and moving your mouse right), you're body will move to the left; altering your stance (so an object previously concealing you won't do it's job anymore. Anyone that played Inf knows that leaning even an inch to much will get you killed). And if, as you say, "you do not even notice", then you'll forget about this extremely relevent side effet.

ps: fuck democracy.

 

[Derelan]

IIRC, RavenShield had a free-move button where you could set your crouch and lean stance precisely, but nothing about resting weapons.

 

[Keganator]

Not pleasing the majority since 1999.

 

[Derelan]

I believe with the in-game M2HB, when you move the mouse left, the gun goes left, and theoretically your player would go right (although i think the UT'99 engine is too ****ty for 3rd person effects like that).

So, having your mouse control the player instead of the gun when moving it about an axis, would be different than what the current players are used to.

 

[cracwhore]

So?

Change it. Screw what we're used to.

 

[geogob]

I agree with cracwhore. Lets not limit our ideas to "what we are used too". We always pushed things one step futher. Like Iron sights. Now everyone wants Irons. I remember people saying way back that players where used to crosshairs and that irons where not a good idea.

 

[Psychomorph]

Those are different things.

Imagine you run around with your M16A4 and shoot targets, than you find a window, or a good place where you lay your weapon at and whoops, the whole mouse is reversed and what you have done before and pretty much the same thing you want to do now, work different.
I remember I had similar things in a, or some game(s) in the past, that was so horrible.
I mean ppl have to get used to flight simulations too, but hey have to get used to something that workes that way the whole game, but in a 1st person shooter having two identical things (aiming a weapon) working absolutely different is a death thrust to this system.

Of course maybe it will work, so I don't want to flame around, but when a supported weapon use is so much complicated than in real life, than adiós.

In RL, you see a target at the right and turn your gun to the right, without to think about that your body leans to the left, so simple.

 

[-Freshmeat]

I think it should be quite easy to make an option to invert mouse when the weapon is resting, so people can choose for themselves. I always have great problems with the M2HB because it is not inverted, which seems counter-intuitive to me.

-Freshmeat

 

[yurch]

I'm not sure what the current argument is about. We can always set the mouse-lean translation to some sort of sensitivity, and make it negative if you want it backwards.

Right now I have mouseleft causing rightlean, just because I prefer it that way when I'm aiming.

Or am I missing something?

 

[Rostam]

I think they mean exactly that, yurch, but then only when using this button on a resting place. Because then you'd need to place your body to the right to aim to the left instead so it would make sense to move your mouse to the right to aim to the left.

I don't exactly agree, but that's what I understand. As long as a person would actively move left and right while aiming his weapon (and in the resting position) I'd be happy. Very happy, even

 

[Turin_Turambar]

This is a secondary issue. You can put an option to invert or not the mouse when deployed. Everybody happy.

 

[Psychomorph]

Yes!

 

[- Lich -]

Well, as turin said it is secondary, but I would vote for *no option to invert*. It is something different if you just point the gun left or rest it on something and want to point it left after in reality, and so should it be ingame, at least when we are talking about a realistic game.

 

[Turin_Turambar]

Well, as turin said it is secondary, but I would vote for *no option to invert*. It is something different if you just point the gun left or rest it on something and want to point it left after in reality, and so should it be ingame, at least when we are talking about a realistic game.

Some people invert the mouse in fps, because they feel it intuitive. Others don't do it, for the same reason. It's a matter of taste about the controls, not about realism.

 

[geogob]

Yes. I agree with Turin. You should give as much flexibility as possible to the input controls, within a certain limit of course. If someone prefers to have the crouch toggled, or other prefer it not toggled that's a question of taste and a personal choice. You should give the played as much flexibility as possible with the controls.

For example, I use a setup that would be very un-intuitive to many of you. I use the right mouse button to move forward and the left shift key for secondary fire. If I ever find an FPS game that doesn't let me use this setup, I think i'm going to beat up the guys who made it.