I have a friend who does exactly that, geogob. He also uses "szxc" instead of "wasd"...but the 's' is for jump. Yeah.
A feature.
- Thread starter yurch
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Turin_Turambar said:
We are talking about left / right and rested on an object / not rested on an object, aren't we? And that is different in reality. (I do not want to quote myself about what I mean) So I still think it should be different ingame, too.
The other examples given by you guys are not in the same line as the other aspect we are talking about. Its not limiting the flexibility of a player but a thing to make ppl *do it right*. But...if you all like the feature better, go on, this is MUCH too unimportant to argue about.
Ok, think it's clear that a reversed option only would make many palyers angry, so it HAVE to be optional.
But I think the standart mouse useage for supported should be not reversed, but standartly normal, with the reversed option available. Just IMO.
Ok lets keep produktively talkin about the main feature...
But I think the standart mouse useage for supported should be not reversed, but standartly normal, with the reversed option available. Just IMO.
Ok lets keep produktively talkin about the main feature...
geogob
Koohii o nomimasu ka?
You types. Buncha freaks I say. Freaks. Of course, he says the same about everyone who uses "wasd".
i use the arrow keys..
but good idea.
theires one thing i dont like. 1 only button for leaning left and right with the mouse. its quite confusing. i prefer it how it is now. i have raven shield and its 1 button for leaning, i hate that, because it blocks the mouse for the leaning. while i prefer to have the mouse only dedicated to movement.
but good idea.
theires one thing i dont like. 1 only button for leaning left and right with the mouse. its quite confusing. i prefer it how it is now. i have raven shield and its 1 button for leaning, i hate that, because it blocks the mouse for the leaning. while i prefer to have the mouse only dedicated to movement.
On one hand the 2 oldschool leaning keys is very comfortable to perform just a lean. On the other hand the fluid lean/duck key is very useful, but I think the problem that leaning that way, the mouse can't be used to aim the weapon.
In RvS you needed to release the fluid lean key to keep your 'adjusted' felxible stance and be able to aim the weapon.
How you think to solve thet problem?
Generally I love the idea of one lean key, that operates the fluid lean+duck, awesome, but how to keep the aim available? Maybe by releasing the lean key you stay leaned (as explained with the RvS system), but the problem is, that in comparison to this fluid lean the normal lean in RvS is still much better.
I always thought about the mousewheel as a fluid lean key, wheel back makes you leaning right, wheel up is a left lean.
Pro is:
- that you can lean fluidly and lean back as fast as you want (defining your exact position).
- can move yourself as usual (cuz no key on keyboard needs to be held).
- can duck at the time and can use/aim the weapon.
- mouse wheel can be reused for other operations when for example aiming a scope, or others.
Con is:
- no fluid duck/raise.
- the mouse wheel has small stages (no 100% fluidity), which is not that much a problem.
An idea is, that the fluid lean is operated via the mouse wheel as explained above, but holding a special key makes your wheel be a lower/raise stance, while the adjusted lean keeps, that way you could just correct your height by holding this key and go on leaning fluidly when the height is adjusted (all with the mouse wheel). Pushing this special key will give you your standart stance (or pushing duck key will let you duck).
The cool thing is, that holding this key and changing the stance via the mouse wheel, can let you also raise your stance over your standart standing position (stretching).
p.s. Don, I do not understand your sig gif animation...
In RvS you needed to release the fluid lean key to keep your 'adjusted' felxible stance and be able to aim the weapon.
How you think to solve thet problem?
Generally I love the idea of one lean key, that operates the fluid lean+duck, awesome, but how to keep the aim available? Maybe by releasing the lean key you stay leaned (as explained with the RvS system), but the problem is, that in comparison to this fluid lean the normal lean in RvS is still much better.
I always thought about the mousewheel as a fluid lean key, wheel back makes you leaning right, wheel up is a left lean.
Pro is:
- that you can lean fluidly and lean back as fast as you want (defining your exact position).
- can move yourself as usual (cuz no key on keyboard needs to be held).
- can duck at the time and can use/aim the weapon.
- mouse wheel can be reused for other operations when for example aiming a scope, or others.
Con is:
- no fluid duck/raise.
- the mouse wheel has small stages (no 100% fluidity), which is not that much a problem.
An idea is, that the fluid lean is operated via the mouse wheel as explained above, but holding a special key makes your wheel be a lower/raise stance, while the adjusted lean keeps, that way you could just correct your height by holding this key and go on leaning fluidly when the height is adjusted (all with the mouse wheel). Pushing this special key will give you your standart stance (or pushing duck key will let you duck).
The cool thing is, that holding this key and changing the stance via the mouse wheel, can let you also raise your stance over your standart standing position (stretching).
p.s. Don, I do not understand your sig gif animation...
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I don't think it's worth losing the mousewheel and height control for the ability to lean on the move, which I really can't see being used much. We got along fine without this ability in UT inf.
I used to have the leaning controlled by the movement keys + leankey... rather clunky. It was changed because we thought it was too akward compared to the finer controls of the mouse.
I used to have the leaning controlled by the movement keys + leankey... rather clunky. It was changed because we thought it was too akward compared to the finer controls of the mouse.
I didn't really thought about leaning on the move, but when you lean it is important to be able to correct your position (if you lean and still don't get the edge). Using for example the 'E' key as I do I would have to release the lean to be able to push the 'D' key to step sideways. The mousewheel wouldn't have such problems.
I have slight problems to really overlook 'the feature'.
So if you hold the lean key, you use the mouse left/right movement to lean left/right and forward/backward movement to raise/lower the stance is it right? To imagine that you can think of RvS, right?
If yes, so whats with the aiming? Thats something I´m 'worried' about. Especially if you mean releasing the lean key will undo the lean, that will make aiming when leaning impossible, or do I misunderstand something?
I have slight problems to really overlook 'the feature'.
So if you hold the lean key, you use the mouse left/right movement to lean left/right and forward/backward movement to raise/lower the stance is it right? To imagine that you can think of RvS, right?
If yes, so whats with the aiming? Thats something I´m 'worried' about. Especially if you mean releasing the lean key will undo the lean, that will make aiming when leaning impossible, or do I misunderstand something?
Releasing the lean key does not reset the lean. That wouldn't be very smart.
Releasing the key only has an application for the pivotlock mode, and even then the lean extent is retained.
Releasing the key only has an application for the pivotlock mode, and even then the lean extent is retained.
Thats sadly the casemeeba said:if only the horizontal scrolling ability on my mx1000 was bindable...
, to some reason you can't bind the lean to the mousewheel.@yurch:
And to gain your standart stance you have to tap the key again (or move)?
When I think about it, than I imagine RvS and I didn't like that in RvS the mouse speed, when fluid lean, is to damn slow and makes the normal lean superior.
If that won't be the case (in INF:Source, or whereever), than I start to love this idea. One key for lean+duck is nice.
The top of this would be if you could define your specific mouse sensitivity, independantly of the standart mouse speed, for exact only the lean/duck. You have to make it, cuz someone likes to play on lower mouse speed, but likes to fluid lean/duck with a faster sensitivity (as me), or reverse.
Oh, and for the case the aiming in INF:Source will be different (real aiming, with probably slower aiming mouse speed), it would be awesome to be able to define the aiming mouse speed byside the normal sensitivity, something I wished for some other games.
By the way, are those features meant for the next INF project? Cuz I thought so.
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I think there should be a seperate "rest" key for the reason of making it easier to rest the weapon.
What I mean is make a second "pivot point" that is as tall as the entire lean up/down range. if the rest key is pressed it checks to see if there is a useable surface in the larger zone, and if there is it automaticly adjust your lean height to the correct level and puts you into pivot mode. from this point you aim the gun normaly without use of the lean key, because aiming would automaticly pivot you to the correct position, aiming out of your leaning constraints would temporarly break you out of the locked state, and returning your aim would rest the weapon back on the object. The lean key or hitting the "rest" key a second time would overide pivot mode.
Also if there is a steady aim button, it should overide the lean key when pressed. Because it doesn't make sense that in order lean out and fire the key sequence is:
press lean key, move mouse to lean out, release lean key, press steady aim, aim with mouse, fire, release steady aim, press lean key, use move to lean back under cover.
It makes more sense if you press the lean key to lean out, press the steady aim key(which overides the lean key), aim and fire. Having to juggle between releasing one key and pressing another, back and forth makes it clumsy
It
What I mean is make a second "pivot point" that is as tall as the entire lean up/down range. if the rest key is pressed it checks to see if there is a useable surface in the larger zone, and if there is it automaticly adjust your lean height to the correct level and puts you into pivot mode. from this point you aim the gun normaly without use of the lean key, because aiming would automaticly pivot you to the correct position, aiming out of your leaning constraints would temporarly break you out of the locked state, and returning your aim would rest the weapon back on the object. The lean key or hitting the "rest" key a second time would overide pivot mode.
Also if there is a steady aim button, it should overide the lean key when pressed. Because it doesn't make sense that in order lean out and fire the key sequence is:
press lean key, move mouse to lean out, release lean key, press steady aim, aim with mouse, fire, release steady aim, press lean key, use move to lean back under cover.
It makes more sense if you press the lean key to lean out, press the steady aim key(which overides the lean key), aim and fire. Having to juggle between releasing one key and pressing another, back and forth makes it clumsy
It
Inverting the mouse axis or not is merely a perception.. whether you're controlling the soldier to aim the rested weapon or directly controlling the weapon. So it definitely should be optional IMO. If you asked me, personally, I'd go into options and set for the prior (inverted) cos that's what we've been doing all this while, i.e. controlling soldier whereby the 'pivotlock' is at the center of playermodel when normal (weapon not rested) thus giving an un-inverted (normal) mouse axis. The latter, to me, simply means transferring my soul into the rifle and the playermodel is just "attached" behind it. Also, the rested aiming/leaning definitely has to be mouse bcos of it's analog input. Just my 2 cents.
Instead of a 'lean' key for this function, prolly extend the 'hold-breath' feature. Logically they're related.. both to steady aim, but resting weapon is better bcos it's permanent (as opposed to hold-breath which is only for short while). Active rest weapon by holding the hold-breath key/button and "attach" to surfaces by touching them (calling the weapon collision method). Then apply the 'pivotlock' to the point of contact (theoritically should work for vertical surfaces as well). Ta da!! And for visual feedback that it's activated, the soldier's left hand from under the barrel moves to above the stock (similar to going prone in 3rd person currently) so the player is aware of the mode change, especially for those who sets inverted mouse control.
Instead of a 'lean' key for this function, prolly extend the 'hold-breath' feature. Logically they're related.. both to steady aim, but resting weapon is better bcos it's permanent (as opposed to hold-breath which is only for short while). Active rest weapon by holding the hold-breath key/button and "attach" to surfaces by touching them (calling the weapon collision method). Then apply the 'pivotlock' to the point of contact (theoritically should work for vertical surfaces as well). Ta da!! And for visual feedback that it's activated, the soldier's left hand from under the barrel moves to above the stock (similar to going prone in 3rd person currently) so the player is aware of the mode change, especially for those who sets inverted mouse control.
Sorry, forgot to mention that the player taps the hold-breath key/button to de-activate this mode, or pretty much anything else (weapon change, move forward, move backward, jump, etc.). Strafing is still within this mode such that the player circles around (orbits) the pivotlock point.
IMO, it shouldn't de-activate when high mouse acceleration, leaning past weapon rest treshold, etc.. it should simply restrict the player's aiming within the predefined limit. As yurch mentioned (post #1), it's a RL disadvantage for such a superior stance which balances the game at the same time. Anyhoo, simply de-activate weapon rest, quickly turn to desired direction, and rest the weapon again. It's a 3 step process. I don't think that's too hard.
IMO, it shouldn't de-activate when high mouse acceleration, leaning past weapon rest treshold, etc.. it should simply restrict the player's aiming within the predefined limit. As yurch mentioned (post #1), it's a RL disadvantage for such a superior stance which balances the game at the same time. Anyhoo, simply de-activate weapon rest, quickly turn to desired direction, and rest the weapon again. It's a 3 step process. I don't think that's too hard.
Finally the discussion continues.
I'm fully agreed on that Createch. Moving the mouse fast when gun rested on an object should deactivate the 'resting', that would allow you to fast react as in RL you would not think about the resting position but lift the gun and point it toward the side. Same as laying the gun on the object again in RL, you would need to do it in the game too.
I also like the aimkey hold feature to rest the gun, but as I allready suggested, moving backward and leaving the resting position would de-activate the 'resting' aswell, same as in RL you would just move keeping the weapon shouldered.
I'm fully agreed on that Createch. Moving the mouse fast when gun rested on an object should deactivate the 'resting', that would allow you to fast react as in RL you would not think about the resting position but lift the gun and point it toward the side. Same as laying the gun on the object again in RL, you would need to do it in the game too.
I also like the aimkey hold feature to rest the gun, but as I allready suggested, moving backward and leaving the resting position would de-activate the 'resting' aswell, same as in RL you would just move keeping the weapon shouldered.