So, is there any way to save this game?
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I find it amusing that it was you who said you'd need to keep a close eye on this thread but every single post by you since then, in this thread has been nothing about the topic of the thread or answering how UT3 could be saved, instead it's been the opposite of what you were preaching and all you've done is finger pointing and blaming the community. (so instead of flaming Epic you've flamed the other way
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This is my first post on these forums, so..first and foremost, hello This game will do okay I think. Although there aren't many people on right now you got to think, MANY people cannot even run this game on their computers yet. It is a next generation game so I think that alone causes there to be less players. I don't see any huge drawbacks that would defer this game so greatly from previous Unreal(s) that would cause players to "not like unreal anymore." Obviously epic is still encouraging growth because they are releasing patches/maps, etc. I think there should be a better community/ranking/tournament system..the only thing you can see is some garbage top 100 list.
This game will do okay I think. Although there aren't many people on right now you got to think, MANY people cannot even run this game on their computers yet. It is a next generation game so I think that alone causes there to be less players. I don't see any huge drawbacks that would defer this game so greatly from previous Unreal(s) that would cause players to "not like unreal anymore." Obviously epic is still encouraging growth because they are releasing patches/maps, etc. I think there should be a better community/ranking/tournament system..the only thing you can see is some garbage top 100 list.
I don't see how I'm flaming anyone, I'm just stating an easily observable fact. Just go read the Epic forums throughout the day.I find it amusing that it was you who said you'd need to keep a close eye on this thread but every single post by you since then, in this thread has been nothing about the topic of the thread or answering how UT3 could be saved, instead it's been the opposite of what you were preaching and all you've done is finger pointing and blaming the community. (so instead of flaming Epic you've flamed the other way
If you don't believe that the community has had more part in the "failure" of UT3 to succeed than even Epic, then I can't imagine you've been following the community at all since last November. The fact that even professional reviewers seemed to have been influenced by talk on the official message boards and not by playing the game at all just proves the point. Why aren't UT fans defending the game? Honestly, there is no more disloyal fanbase that I have ever seen in all my years of gaming than that of Epic. As soon as the UT3 user interface was not what they wanted, they determined to never buy nor play the game. Not only that, but they continue to frequent the message boards and complain about their disappointment in the current incarnation of the game for months, as if their whining will turn the obviously few of us who enjoy the game away from it. This happen nearly every day on our own forums.
I'm not saying that every UT fan should be blindly supportive of Epic, I have my own complaints with UT3. However, when I have a chance to play the game I play it! I don't come onto the forums or IRC and whine about the realtively few complaints I have with the game. There are things that REALLY annoy me with Supreme Commander, for example, and I'd consider myself a fan of GPG, but I don't sit around on their forums all day whining about the things that bother me. I may post about it once, but then I move on. Why can't this community move on?
I think releasing a UT3.5 could help the game but they will have to add back the content that was removed from UT2k and add MORE new content. I believe that the game lost so many players wasn't just because of the UI, console, not finished problems. It was ALSO because of lost content, less content, very little new content, the dumbing down of the game and the addition of gamespy.
Lost content: If this game has any chance at succeding they have to bring back the UT2004 content. I didn't realize how many of the original UT players Epic ticked off until I came here after the release of UT3. Epic should have learned from this mistake. This time around they ticked off the UT2k players. With the loss of adrenaline, movement, weapons and everything that was UT2k they lost MANY players. All of this needs to be brought back but NOT MADE mandatory to play. Did everyone read that? NOT MANDATORY! A simple checkbox in the UI to allow servers the ability to CHOOSE how to play the game (turn on or off UT2k content) is needed. This is absolutely mandatory for this game to succede in the future.
Less content: Removing gametypes that people have grown to love is not a good idea. Assault was my favorite game. Now there is an Onslaught/Assault mix. I did not really like Onslaught and do not want it in the type of game that I do like. Removing zoom in vehicles was also NOT a good idea. I MUST have first person view in a raptor. Zoom in other vehicles is a nice option that needs to be brought back. Weapon tossing, although not a neccisity was one of the ways Epic decided to even the playing field with a seasoned player (as were many of the other things changed in the game). Why remove this?
New content: As far as I can tell the only real new content that Ut3 has to offer was the new vehicles and warfare. Whoever was in charge of making new vehicles did his job. But what about new weapons? Was no one in charge of trying to make something new? A revamp of older weapons is just not enough. The Least they could have done is bring back the ripper.
Dumbing down: It is truly hard for a new person to pick up any game. We have all been there, especially with any of the UT's. But we all managed to learn it. Removing so much useful content from the seasoned player (see above) just to make it easier for a newcomer to get into the game was a mistake. Bring back the content that was there from previous games.
Gamespy: I have not read even ONE post of how gamespy has helped this game. There have been MANY that have been posted as to how it hinders the game. Making the players of UT3 join another site to PLAY UT3 is just pathetic. Although I think there is a hack out now, not letting people change their names is absolutly stupid. I cannot even conceive what Epic was thinking on this one.
Epic has made its money from the consoles now please bring it back to the PC with a UT3.5 and leave the consoles out of it.
I realize that some of this stuff has been touched on before but most of the complaining was about the UI, console, unpolished, unfinished, single player, lack of advertising when it was released. I have stayed away from those things to try and spare all of you the things that were so overstated so many times before, however those things do need to be addressed and some of them have been with updates.
This game can be fixed but it will take a lot.
Lost content: If this game has any chance at succeding they have to bring back the UT2004 content. I didn't realize how many of the original UT players Epic ticked off until I came here after the release of UT3. Epic should have learned from this mistake. This time around they ticked off the UT2k players. With the loss of adrenaline, movement, weapons and everything that was UT2k they lost MANY players. All of this needs to be brought back but NOT MADE mandatory to play. Did everyone read that? NOT MANDATORY! A simple checkbox in the UI to allow servers the ability to CHOOSE how to play the game (turn on or off UT2k content) is needed. This is absolutely mandatory for this game to succede in the future.
Less content: Removing gametypes that people have grown to love is not a good idea. Assault was my favorite game. Now there is an Onslaught/Assault mix. I did not really like Onslaught and do not want it in the type of game that I do like. Removing zoom in vehicles was also NOT a good idea. I MUST have first person view in a raptor. Zoom in other vehicles is a nice option that needs to be brought back. Weapon tossing, although not a neccisity was one of the ways Epic decided to even the playing field with a seasoned player (as were many of the other things changed in the game). Why remove this?
New content: As far as I can tell the only real new content that Ut3 has to offer was the new vehicles and warfare. Whoever was in charge of making new vehicles did his job. But what about new weapons? Was no one in charge of trying to make something new? A revamp of older weapons is just not enough. The Least they could have done is bring back the ripper.
Dumbing down: It is truly hard for a new person to pick up any game. We have all been there, especially with any of the UT's. But we all managed to learn it. Removing so much useful content from the seasoned player (see above) just to make it easier for a newcomer to get into the game was a mistake. Bring back the content that was there from previous games.
Gamespy: I have not read even ONE post of how gamespy has helped this game. There have been MANY that have been posted as to how it hinders the game. Making the players of UT3 join another site to PLAY UT3 is just pathetic. Although I think there is a hack out now, not letting people change their names is absolutly stupid. I cannot even conceive what Epic was thinking on this one.
Epic has made its money from the consoles now please bring it back to the PC with a UT3.5 and leave the consoles out of it.
I realize that some of this stuff has been touched on before but most of the complaining was about the UI, console, unpolished, unfinished, single player, lack of advertising when it was released. I have stayed away from those things to try and spare all of you the things that were so overstated so many times before, however those things do need to be addressed and some of them have been with updates.
This game can be fixed but it will take a lot.
No one liked adrenaline, not a single competitive player nor any person that I've ever known has been sad that adrenaline is gone. Any sort of competitive match (CTF) had adrenaline turned off anyway.
And what weapons are gone? The sniper and the LtG are interchangeable and the SG was just a stupid version of the impact hammer.
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Judge Dredd Lox: If you were willing to wait probably another year for UT3's release (not going to happen) then maybe you might see more gametypes. Think about it. Each map takes 1-3 months to complete, and there are almost 40 maps in the game. And for the billioth time, UT2004 had all the content combined from UT2003, which is why there as so much.
You missed the point of my post and you're still doing it... pointing fingers rather than following the threads notion of thinking of ideas to revitalize the scene.
You can do that in all the other threads about UT3. (in fact, hold up, let me just make one - see you there!)
If the game had a proper demo and a proper release (meaning that the game wasn't released in the state that it was, wasn't released alongside more popular games, and was marketed much better) 500 people complaining on forums wouldn't mean anything, because the game would have gotten those 9/10 reviews, would have been picked up by gaming leagues, and would have attracted more people and actually formed something resembling a fanbase. Do you really think that anyone decided not to buy the game solely from reading a bunch of complainers' posts on the forums? A much more likely scenario is that most people who didn't buy UT3 decided to do so after the "beta" demo, or just decided to get COD4/Crysis/Orange box or whatever instead. And the "community" had nothing to do with either of those things.
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Not that I know of, it'd be next to impossible to make a frag vid with the state of demo recording in UT3.
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I agree that it would help, especially in tandem with a price reduction. Display "UT3 now 20$" with "Try new UT3 demo" underneath on steam or something. But it's still not enough, IMO, to attract a significant amount of players.
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Here's an interesting fact - UT2004 is actually still doing pretty well, and would be doing better if UT3 hadn't come along and sucked out half of the community. In fact I think UT2004 has more players than now than it did two years ago, despite the fact that more new games have been released.
UT doesn't attract that many new players all the time, but the ones that get into it tend to stick with it. It's always been the kind of game that sucks players in with its astounding depth. Epic should capitalize on this, rather than shoot themselves in the foot repeatedly by releasing a new UT every three years or so to try and drum up more sales and splitting the community into 50 different pieces.
I know this is a radical idea coming from a community member, and most people are opposed to it on the grounds that it looks like a profiteering move, but I think the best thing Epic could do to save UT3's community would be to add some stuff, change some stuff, fix a lot of stuff, and re-release it next year a la UT2003 -> UT2004.
Also, I know conventional logic says that catering to the competitive community is a poor investment economically, but I think games, especially FPS's, have reached a stage where knowledge of their being played competitively is so widespread that Epic could really have some success exploiting this avenue. There are so many great features they could build into the game to help this:
1. Real community tools, including support for clans and ladders, either hosted on an official website or built into the game.
2. Official tournaments and events.
3. Promotion, shoutcasting, and UTV'ing (anybody remember this awesome mod?) of events, again all integrated into the in-game community tools.
4. Decent demorec support so that the community video makers can do their job promoting the game virally. An official video competition of some kind could be good too.
5. CONTINUE TO SUPPORT THE GAME for competitive play and seek revenue that way, rather than focusing only on the retail sales and releasing a totally different UT game in another 3 years and starting the whole cycle all over again.
I know that after past experiences this sounds like crazy talk, but if they did it right, it could work. I see this as the only viable option UT3 really has to find its niche in the market right now, because it's an aspect that's being totally neglected right now on PC and PS3.
I've already gotten my $50 worth out of UT3 and I'd be happy to shell out again next year if it meant getting a truly fixed game. It would give the title a chance to have the good launch that it miffed so badly, and Epic would at least get a little more money out of it to justify the cost of making the major, MAJOR fixes that the game needs.
UT doesn't attract that many new players all the time, but the ones that get into it tend to stick with it. It's always been the kind of game that sucks players in with its astounding depth. Epic should capitalize on this, rather than shoot themselves in the foot repeatedly by releasing a new UT every three years or so to try and drum up more sales and splitting the community into 50 different pieces.
I know this is a radical idea coming from a community member, and most people are opposed to it on the grounds that it looks like a profiteering move, but I think the best thing Epic could do to save UT3's community would be to add some stuff, change some stuff, fix a lot of stuff, and re-release it next year a la UT2003 -> UT2004.
Also, I know conventional logic says that catering to the competitive community is a poor investment economically, but I think games, especially FPS's, have reached a stage where knowledge of their being played competitively is so widespread that Epic could really have some success exploiting this avenue. There are so many great features they could build into the game to help this:
1. Real community tools, including support for clans and ladders, either hosted on an official website or built into the game.
2. Official tournaments and events.
3. Promotion, shoutcasting, and UTV'ing (anybody remember this awesome mod?) of events, again all integrated into the in-game community tools.
4. Decent demorec support so that the community video makers can do their job promoting the game virally. An official video competition of some kind could be good too.
5. CONTINUE TO SUPPORT THE GAME for competitive play and seek revenue that way, rather than focusing only on the retail sales and releasing a totally different UT game in another 3 years and starting the whole cycle all over again.
I know that after past experiences this sounds like crazy talk, but if they did it right, it could work. I see this as the only viable option UT3 really has to find its niche in the market right now, because it's an aspect that's being totally neglected right now on PC and PS3.
I've already gotten my $50 worth out of UT3 and I'd be happy to shell out again next year if it meant getting a truly fixed game. It would give the title a chance to have the good launch that it miffed so badly, and Epic would at least get a little more money out of it to justify the cost of making the major, MAJOR fixes that the game needs.
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I defended UT3 from the start. But Epic doesn't care about the PC userbase anymore. Releasing a 3 map pack, consisting of levels that should of been in the game to begin with, doesn't remedy all the things they screwed up.
Face it, Epic doesn't care. Unless you plan on buying a 360 and buying the next 4 Gears games, you don't have a voice.
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The thing which concerns me so much with this 2003->2004 solution people seem to love now confused but yeah is compatibility. Now sure it wouldnt take too much to port stuff over but you guys are just throwing around features without even thinking of the repercussions of adding those.
I think if anything Epic should do things in patches that way compatibility isnt as huge as in issue as it was between 2003->2004.
I just think its so funny that after everything we went through back then you guys want to repeat that in a hurry. Im sure theres plenty we can do for UT3, like perhaps supporting it longer than 1 quater of a year!
confused but yeah is compatibility. Now sure it wouldnt take too much to port stuff over but you guys are just throwing around features without even thinking of the repercussions of adding those.I think if anything Epic should do things in patches that way compatibility isnt as huge as in issue as it was between 2003->2004.
I just think its so funny that after everything we went through back then you guys want to repeat that in a hurry. Im sure theres plenty we can do for UT3, like perhaps supporting it longer than 1 quater of a year!
1. Make a reasonably logical and sensible UI, including server/buddies listing & info
2. Better demo
3. Better server admin
I think that's on topic.
2. Better demo
3. Better server admin
I think that's on topic.
I agree that might be one avenue of success and I'd love to see that happen. I think it would be successful for Epic Games and I think the community would appreciate it as well.
It seems unrealistic to release a game devoted solely to online gaming (I know offline and all that, blah, blah, blah) and then give the community tools with which to expand its playtime by adding new mods, maps, and mutators, and then expect them to embrace an incrementally, but fundamentally, changed game a few years later. Now we've got roughly three factions of gamers that stubbornly cling to their ideal Tournament (UT, UT2x, and UT3).
Doesn't surprise me how ungrateful you are.
Maybe Epic will listen to your post and just stop giving us content at all.
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