US defaults next week what does everyone think?

[N1ghtmare]

Democrats get a debt ceiling increase, and Republicans get spending level decreases. How much do the Democrats give up?

Except raising the debt limit is not a 'democrat thing' or something that the democrats want or something that is part of the bargain. Raising the debt limits has been a simple matter ever president and party has voted for. The only issue here is that the debt has gotten to large in relation to our revenue. Given that the Tea-Party wants a stranglehold this time around, it would be a perfect opportunity to say, have 4trillion cuts in spending of medicare/social security, and close some loopholes for the top 1%.

Both sides wanted to cut. The compromise was going to be medicar/ss for tax loopholes.

Except the tea party is crazy.

I love how everyone also forgets about the 4trillion plan last week, which was cutting Medicare and social security, as if those are not things Obama was willing to put on the table to make a deal. Except the tea party does not want a deal. From what I can tell, they do not think a default is a major issue. I think one of em even said we should lower the debt ceiling and instantly default. Amazing idea!

 

[kiff]

I love how everyone also forgets about the 4trillion plan last week, which was cutting Medicare and social security, as if those are not things Obama was willing to put on the table to make a deal. Except the tea party does not want a deal. From what I can tell, they do not think a default is a major issue. I think one of em even said we should lower the debt ceiling and instantly default. Amazing idea!

pff... it's just talk. as usual, zero substance...

CBO: "We Can't Score Speeches"

Douglas Elmendorf, the director of the Congressional Budget Office, told the House Budget Committee this morning that his office was unable to estimate the long-term viability of the "budget framework" President Obama outlined in his April 13 budget speech.

"We don't estimate speeches," said Elmendorf. "We need much more specificity than was provided in that speech for us to do our analysis."

As Fred Barnes reported in April, Ryan's aides were puzzled by how Obama had come up with new figures showing $4 trillion in savings over 12 years.

Following the speech, an aide to Ryan contacted the budget office at the White House. The president had been vague about how he’d achieve his goals for cutting spending and reducing debt. So the Ryan staffer asked for specifics. Where did the numbers come from? What were the assumptions? What was the spending baseline? Could the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) calculate the cost of Obama’s plan?

He got no answers. The Ryan aide was referred to the president’s budget, released in February, a budget the speech seemed to supersede. For more information, he was told to contact the White House press office, which pointed him to a “fact sheet.” It was a press release with few facts.

 

[Vaskadar]

I'd actually be curious to see how an economic collapse would play out on the micro scale. I mean, I wouldn't want to partake in it, but to observe how people would cope with it. Would we turn to bartering to compensate for the lack of a real monetary structure operated by the state? Do you think we'd turn to usage of other monetary systems? Berkshares?

Berkshires, Mass. already circulates its own currency in place of the U.S. Dollar.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

Rise of the Bitcoin.

 

[-n7-]

lolitics

 

[kiff]

I'd actually be curious to see how an economic collapse would play out on the micro scale. I mean, I wouldn't want to partake in it, but to observe how people would cope with it. Would we turn to bartering to compensate for the lack of a real monetary structure operated by the state? Do you think we'd turn to usage of other monetary systems? Berkshares?

Berkshires, Mass. already circulates its own currency in place of the U.S. Dollar.

Last year I was going to cash in some mutual funds and put it in gold (and maybe silver), but it had broke $1200/oz and I figured it was maxed out

 

[Vaskadar]

I figured I'd put money into platinum.

 

[BITE_ME]

"I figured I'd put money into" a Loto ticket

 

[Zur]

Last year I was going to cash in some mutual funds and put it in gold (and maybe silver), but it had broke $1200/oz and I figured it was maxed out

Wrong time to put resources into gold/silver. Those values may tank at any given moment's notice.

 

[Lizard Of Oz]

I've converted all my assets to Quatloos.

 

[Hadmar]

I went with the only choice that sounded sensible to me and converted everything to Ningis.

 

[Benfica]

If there's a default and people don't get paid, there will be unrest and probably martial law or equivalent. From there...

 

[Capt.Toilet]

If there's a default and people don't get paid, there will be unrest and probably martial law or equivalent. From there...

And from there crime will go through the roof. It will be all the more reason to try out my trusty double barrel on some fuckwads cranium

Oh and screw bitcoins. My next currency I vote for bottlecaps.

 

[kiff]

Wrong time to put resources into gold/silver. Those values may tank at any given moment's notice.

well yea, that was last year and now it's around $1600 (last i heard). what makes you think it'll tank?

 

[TWD]

I love how everyone also forgets about the 4trillion plan last week, which was cutting Medicare and social security, as if those are not things Obama was willing to put on the table to make a deal. Except the tea party does not want a deal. From what I can tell, they do not think a default is a major issue. I think one of em even said we should lower the debt ceiling and instantly default. Amazing idea!

I haven't forgotten the larger deal. What this shows is that the threader of default isn't enough to get Democrats to give up much. In order to get that big deal, more things had to be put on the table. I just don't see why we can't have a bill that raises the debt ceiling, and cuts 4 trillion. Why isn't that an acceptable deal?

 

[Sir_Brizz]

Because then we hate poor people.

 

[Selerox]

Oops...

Apple now holds more cash than the US Government

Something, somewhere has gone badly, badly wrong with your country.

 

[dragonfliet]

What this shows is that the threader of default isn't enough to get Democrats to give up much.

while [Democrats are] concerned with doing the job they were elected to do, [Republicans are] more concerned with their political football game.

This is all I ever see or hear on this issue. I hear that the Democrats are jerks who refuse to give up entitlement funds and I hear that the Republicans are jerks who refuse to budge an inch on their extreme teaparty agenda. No one really seems to understand that both parties are trying to take advantage of this situation, but that they are toying with our fucking country.

I mean, seriously. Both parties are essentially threatening to shut down the government if they don't get what they want, and this isn't even the first fucking time this has happened. Our politicians have more in common with terrorists than they do with ideals of statesmen.

Now that I've lambasted both parties, it's time to concentrate on the Republicans, because they are the ones more than anyone else that is refusing to let anything other than their agenda pass. Even worse are the Tea Party reps who will settle for nothing less than huge cuts AND a constitutional amendment to keep the country from defaulting on its debt. But they are a complete and utter mess. They can't even get a bill through the house that they freaking control! Much less deal with the fact that there is a democratic senate and president that wouldn't agree with the load of changes they're pushing. Listen, people, we all lose if we can't raise the debt ceiling, but just because you passed the bomb off doesn't change the fact that you were instrumental in its creation in trying to pass massive restructuring of the government in a time-crunch situation. Using an emergency to shove an agenda down someone's throat doesn't make them the bad guys when they gag.

 

[N1ghtmare]

I just don't see why we can't have a bill that raises the debt ceiling, and cuts 4 trillion. Why isn't that an acceptable deal?

Exactly! Maybe we should both call our congressmen. Not that they would listen.

 

[TWD]

Now that I've lambasted both parties, it's time to concentrate on the Republicans, because they are the ones more than anyone else that is refusing to let anything other than their agenda pass. Even worse are the Tea Party reps who will settle for nothing less than huge cuts AND a constitutional amendment to keep the country from defaulting on its debt. But they are a complete and utter mess. They can't even get a bill through the house that they freaking control! Much less deal with the fact that there is a democratic senate and president that wouldn't agree with the load of changes they're pushing. Listen, people, we all lose if we can't raise the debt ceiling, but just because you passed the bomb off doesn't change the fact that you were instrumental in its creation in trying to pass massive restructuring of the government in a time-crunch situation. Using an emergency to shove an agenda down someone's throat doesn't make them the bad guys when they gag.

The major thing to keep in mind here is that the tea party doesn't believe that it's that big of a deal. Their strategy is to just hang in until Aug 2nd. If the sun still comes up then the president loses a lot of credibility and leverage. It's not so crazy...if they are right (I'd rather not find out).

I initially thought this was lunacy, but the closer we get the less convinced I am. Most analysts don't think missing the deadline is the end of the world. Not as big of a deal as the tarp failure at least. Market action seems to confirm this as well, but this could just be everyone expecting a deal.

If the house revamps their deal with a clean and reasonable balanced budget amendment then we might have a chance. I don't think anything else will pass.