UT2003 / UT2004 Network Compatability To Be Broken

RaptoR · 20th Jan 2004, 04:46 AM

Benjamin Cardon sends this news from the UT2003Mods mailing list. Epic's Tim Sweeney has revealed that, in fact, UT2003 and UT2004 will not be network compatible. That means that UT2004 players won't be able to play on UT2003 servers as originally planned.

Networking won't work between UT2003 and UT2004. We had initially plannedto support that, but the network code has changed so much in order to
reduce bandwidth, support vehicles, and increase performance, that we couldn't
keep
the two games network-compatible.

-Tim

Loibisch · 20th Jan 2004, 04:52 AM

and before all the bitching starts:
Were any of you planning to play on UT2003 servers with UT2004?
Please keep in mind that a lot of things have been changed (weapon balance, boostdodge, way itemspawn works, etc.)
This isn't even the same game anymore so if you wanna play it I suggest you just leave your old UT2003 copy installed...

master_newbie · 20th Jan 2004, 04:56 AM

yes, when ut2004 arrives I want to play all that new ut2004 stuff

and I guess within a month 90% of all ut2003 servers have upgraded to 2004

grimstar · 20th Jan 2004, 05:15 AM

Maybe now they can change a few things with the UT2003 maps (that'll be in UT2004).

[V3]Optimal · 20th Jan 2004, 05:29 AM

In other words ut2k4 is going to kill ut2k3. I really don't care about the compatability between the two. I didn't plan on playing in 2k3 servers anyway.

Kow · 20th Jan 2004, 05:40 AM

What everyone seems to be missing is that Ut2004 players won't be compatible with UT2003 mods now which will get very ****ing annoying when some mods might move to the newer engine. This means me and a alot of people will have to buy a ****ty game just to play some mods. (Ut2003 was a bad game but I bought it just for Red Orchestra)

A_Rimmerlister · 20th Jan 2004, 05:49 AM

*eh* they won't be compatible on the network-level ... there's still a chance the mods work with both games (that is if the developers worked with the engine instead of against it).

ie : you can't play UT'03 & RO on a server running UT'04 & RO or vice versa.
Then again I doubt few teams will be able to maintain 2 versions just to please a minority. And given that most mods are planning to add vehicles anyway logic would suggest that they all eventually move to UT'04.

Plumb_Drumb · 20th Jan 2004, 06:53 AM

Ok, nows Epics chance to fix all the collision problems with thier old maps.

In fact, backwards compatibility was the only reason i accepted the fact that the same old 2k3 maps with no fixes would be included in 2k4...

Loric · 20th Jan 2004, 07:27 AM

Obviously the explaination Tim Sweeney gives is utter bullcrap.
All the optimisations made for UT2004 could profit UT2003 as well, couldn't they?

To me they are breaking compatibility either to force people switching to UT2004 (by droppiong support ot UT2003) or because they want to make sure the UT2003 hacks can't be used by cheaters in UT2004.

WebSlinger · 20th Jan 2004, 08:03 AM

Loric, do you have a copy of both engine's source code and minutes from the Epic marketing meetings to back up your claims? Or did you just make all of that up?

W0RF · 20th Jan 2004, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kowalski.44

What everyone seems to be missing is that Ut2004 players won't be compatible with UT2003 mods now which will get very ****ing annoying when some mods might move to the newer engine. This means me and a alot of people will have to buy a ****ty game just to play some mods. (Ut2003 was a bad game but I bought it just for Red Orchestra)

This is my only beef with it. I was hoping 2K4 would bring the market together, not split it a fourth way (if you count XMP, which has in fact pulled me off 2k3 for the moment). In truth, I'm so picky about my servers (sub-200 or even sub-100 ping, no LG/IG/whatever crap, etc), I probably would pass over the 2K3 servers anyway once I got used to 2K4 play. And I'll probably be playing ONS and AS more than anything so it may double-not-matter to me. But being able to port the mods over to 2K4 with no hassles would have been nice. A lot of mod teams are probably spewing their coffee right now as they read this notice.

Loric raises an interesting question, though (not about the money-grubbing conspiracy). Would it be possible to patch 2K3 to restore network compatibility from 2K4? You know what I'm saying? It's kind of hard to phrase that question correctly but I know in my head what I'm asking...

SkaarjMaster · 20th Jan 2004, 09:15 AM

I'm not too bothered by this, but they need to quit f**king with the flak cannon.

A_Rimmerlister · 20th Jan 2004, 09:43 AM

If they really had wanted to pull a fast one then they'd claim that UT'04 would be an expansionpack.

They didn't ...
They almost immediately said it would be a full game.
So a network-compatibility break was to be expected ...
They even said that they were going to break it at some point (IIRC something was said that they were delaying several fixes so they would only break compatibility once or something to that effect).

I think the only thing they didn't guess was the fact that the gap could prove a bit too big to fix.
Perhaps they needed to fix the original UT'03 levels as well ?
Given the comments that the pickups have been resized in UT'04 there might have been no easy way to fix that in UT'03.
It definitely could mean that a 100% network-compatible 'patch' would have meant releasing almost the entire game as a patch.

RegularX · 20th Jan 2004, 09:49 AM

Tim's post seems to suggest that they've made enough changes that a simple patch isn't possible. That doesn't sound like some BS PR statement to me, that sounds like what happens in coding.

From the sounds of it, few mods are going to want to stay with UT2003 in the face of new GUI code, new vehicle code, new weapon code, new gameplay code, better networking, etc.

And for the MSUC Phase 3, mods have to UT2k4 compatible. So your existing projects will probably be making the switch around March.

Doc_EDo · 20th Jan 2004, 10:11 AM

This might be the beginning of the end for the modding community.....

SirTahngarth · 20th Jan 2004, 10:16 AM

its netcode thats breaking compatibility, not anything else. mods should work as they did before.

punk129 · 20th Jan 2004, 10:43 AM

this means ut2003 mods wont work with ut2004?

Bazzi · 20th Jan 2004, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirTahngarth

its netcode thats breaking compatibility, not anything else. mods should work as they did before.

And netcode is like the easiest thing to port back to 2k3, innit?

PsychoMoggieBagpuss · 20th Jan 2004, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by punk129

this means ut2003 mods wont work with ut2004?

Depends if they did something funky with the netcode or not.

Loibisch · 20th Jan 2004, 11:42 AM

@Bazzi:
Nope, but I won't even go into that.

People seem to be missing that almost every patch for UT2003 broke mod-compatibility and mods had to be re-released to work with the new patch. Now you expect that UT2003 mods just work for UT2004 without any tweaking?

UT2004 will be just another patch for modmakers.

20th Jan 2004, 04:46 AM	#1
RaptoR been here far too long Join Date: May. 7th, 2000 Location: UK Posts: 3,524	UT2003 / UT2004 Network Compatability To Be Broken Benjamin Cardon sends this news from the UT2003Mods mailing list. Epic's Tim Sweeney has revealed that, in fact, UT2003 and UT2004 will not be network compatible. That means that UT2004 players won't be able to play on UT2003 servers as originally planned. Networking won't work between UT2003 and UT2004. We had initially plannedto support that, but the network code has changed so much in order to reduce bandwidth, support vehicles, and increase performance, that we couldn't keep the two games network-compatible. -Tim __________________ Planet Unreal \| Planet Gears

20th Jan 2004, 04:52 AM	#2
Loibisch The Odd Member Join Date: Jan. 3rd, 2000 Location: Germany Posts: 2,199	and before all the bitching starts: Were any of you planning to play on UT2003 servers with UT2004? Please keep in mind that a lot of things have been changed (weapon balance, boostdodge, way itemspawn works, etc.) This isn't even the same game anymore so if you wanna play it I suggest you just leave your old UT2003 copy installed... __________________ [Ci]Loibisch - Site/Forum admin and attacker of clan Carpe Imperium

20th Jan 2004, 04:56 AM	#3
master_newbie 2D Mod Fan Join Date: Sep. 6th, 2003 Posts: 271	yes, when ut2004 arrives I want to play all that new ut2004 stuff and I guess within a month 90% of all ut2003 servers have upgraded to 2004 __________________

20th Jan 2004, 05:49 AM	#7
A_Rimmerlister JaFO(JBE\|JBM) Join Date: Aug. 3rd, 2001 Location: Eindhoven, The Netherlands Posts: 2,920	eh they won't be compatible on the network-level ... there's still a chance the mods work with both games (that is if the developers worked with the engine instead of against it). ie : you can't play UT'03 & RO on a server running UT'04 & RO or vice versa. Then again I doubt few teams will be able to maintain 2 versions just to please a minority. And given that most mods are planning to add vehicles anyway logic would suggest that they all eventually move to UT'04. __________________ - Festina Lente - Fac Omniae Mente -

20th Jan 2004, 06:53 AM	#8
Plumb_Drumb senseless Join Date: Mar. 19th, 2002 Location: Denver Co. USA Posts: 4,409	Ok, nows Epics chance to fix all the collision problems with thier old maps. In fact, backwards compatibility was the only reason i accepted the fact that the same old 2k3 maps with no fixes would be included in 2k4... __________________

20th Jan 2004, 05:15 AM	#4
grimstar Join Date: May. 27th, 2001 Location: Australia Posts: 178	Maybe now they can change a few things with the UT2003 maps (that'll be in UT2004).

20th Jan 2004, 05:29 AM	#5
[V3]Optimal Registered User Join Date: Nov. 5th, 2003 Posts: 35	In other words ut2k4 is going to kill ut2k3. I really don't care about the compatability between the two. I didn't plan on playing in 2k3 servers anyway.

20th Jan 2004, 05:40 AM	#6
Kow Material Defender Join Date: Jul. 29th, 2001 Location: Volvoland Posts: 638	What everyone seems to be missing is that Ut2004 players won't be compatible with UT2003 mods now which will get very **ing annoying when some mods might move to the newer engine. This means me and a alot of people will have to buy a **ty game just to play some mods. (Ut2003 was a bad game but I bought it just for Red Orchestra)

20th Jan 2004, 07:27 AM	#9
Loric Registered User Join Date: Oct. 11th, 2003 Location: Paris Posts: 6	Obviously the explaination Tim Sweeney gives is utter bullcrap. All the optimisations made for UT2004 could profit UT2003 as well, couldn't they? To me they are breaking compatibility either to force people switching to UT2004 (by droppiong support ot UT2003) or because they want to make sure the UT2003 hacks can't be used by cheaters in UT2004. __________________ Vsit my UT2003 skins site

20th Jan 2004, 08:03 AM	#10
WebSlinger bNotNegative != False Join Date: Feb. 29th, 2000 Location: Oklahoma City, OK Posts: 1,954	Loric, do you have a copy of both engine's source code and minutes from the Epic marketing meetings to back up your claims? Or did you just make all of that up? __________________ oun¡¡¡¡Quiero más popotes!!!!uno

20th Jan 2004, 09:15 AM	#12
SkaarjMaster 11111011010 Join Date: Sep. 1st, 2000 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 3,047	I'm not too bothered by this, but they need to quit f**king with the flak cannon. __________________

20th Jan 2004, 09:43 AM	#13
A_Rimmerlister JaFO(JBE\|JBM) Join Date: Aug. 3rd, 2001 Location: Eindhoven, The Netherlands Posts: 2,920	If they really had wanted to pull a fast one then they'd claim that UT'04 would be an expansionpack. They didn't ... They almost immediately said it would be a full game. So a network-compatibility break was to be expected ... They even said that they were going to break it at some point (IIRC something was said that they were delaying several fixes so they would only break compatibility once or something to that effect). I think the only thing they didn't guess was the fact that the gap could prove a bit too big to fix. Perhaps they needed to fix the original UT'03 levels as well ? Given the comments that the pickups have been resized in UT'04 there might have been no easy way to fix that in UT'03. It definitely could mean that a 100% network-compatible 'patch' would have meant releasing almost the entire game as a patch. __________________ - Festina Lente - Fac Omniae Mente -

20th Jan 2004, 09:49 AM	#14
RegularX Master of Dagoth Lies Join Date: Feb. 2nd, 2000 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,215	Tim's post seems to suggest that they've made enough changes that a simple patch isn't possible. That doesn't sound like some BS PR statement to me, that sounds like what happens in coding. From the sounds of it, few mods are going to want to stay with UT2003 in the face of new GUI code, new vehicle code, new weapon code, new gameplay code, better networking, etc. And for the MSUC Phase 3, mods have to UT2k4 compatible. So your existing projects will probably be making the switch around March. __________________ _____________________________ I remember old school. Champion of Glaucoma Inducing Radiation Everywhere

20th Jan 2004, 10:11 AM	#15
Doc_EDo LEFT Join Date: Jan. 10th, 2002 Posts: 755	This might be the beginning of the end for the modding community..... __________________

20th Jan 2004, 10:16 AM	#16
SirTahngarth Teammember on UT3JB Bangaa Bishop Join Date: Feb. 21st, 2002 Location: Ivalice Posts: 2,031	its netcode thats breaking compatibility, not anything else. mods should work as they did before. __________________ ^click here to visit my dragons^ Canya put some bonus points in me drinkin' skill? http://savage2.s2games.com ^ This is a really unique game, get it. avatar (c)square enix

20th Jan 2004, 10:43 AM	#17
punk129 !!!!!!!!!!!11111111111 Join Date: Jan. 18th, 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 171	this means ut2003 mods wont work with ut2004? __________________ Programmer - BlackShadow Studios (http://coldwar.blackshadowstudios.com) There's no truth, only variations of lie. http://www.punk129.com/unrealediting/

20th Jan 2004, 11:42 AM	#20
Loibisch The Odd Member Join Date: Jan. 3rd, 2000 Location: Germany Posts: 2,199	@Bazzi: Nope, but I won't even go into that. People seem to be missing that almost every patch for UT2003 broke mod-compatibility and mods had to be re-released to work with the new patch. Now you expect that UT2003 mods just work for UT2004 without any tweaking? UT2004 will be just another patch for modmakers. __________________ [Ci]Loibisch - Site/Forum admin and attacker of clan Carpe Imperium

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