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Why games will always look fake...

Discussion in 'Unreal Tournament 2003/2004' started by WebSlinger, Dec 9, 2003.

  1. WebSlinger

    WebSlinger bNotNegative != False

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    No matter how realistic the textures... no matter how many polys... no matter how carefully calculated the motion blur is.... games will always look fake because of FOCUS. Everything on the screen is always in focus.

    So, here's my solution... CONTACT LENSES!

    You wear these lenses that have little wireless devices in them that communicate with the game software. When you look at something, the game only focuses the items that are that deep in the picture and blurs everything else on a scale based on how much closer or farther away they are from what you are looking at! It's BRILLIANT!!

    There, you have your million dollar idea, I want 20%

    :p ;) <-- these still mean something, right?
     
  2. Daedalus

    Daedalus I don't even...

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    actually, if we could have computers that could render and process literally an infinite number of polygons at once, then we could have realistic looking games. This problem wont happen, ever, or at least not for a very very long time.
     
  3. Raffi_B

    Raffi_B Administrator

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    The day computers are able to draw a perfect circle is the day you will be able to play in realistic scenes.

    Never.
     
  4. Doc_EDo

    Doc_EDo LEFT

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    Not true. What ever you look at is in focus, and that's only a small radius arround the point you are looking at. So games dont need focus distance at all.

    It doesnt have to be a polygons only dots. Also the number will be in billions not necessary infinite.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2003
  5. thewalkingman

    thewalkingman ssssssssssss bugger!

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    ;)
     

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  6. Dr. Nick

    Dr. Nick New Member

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    I've saw several games lately that use depth of field which blurs out objects further in the background (Beyond Good and Evil and Prince of Persia come to mind). Of course there's no way to dynamically change the focus depending on where you are looking unless you had the computer hooked directly to your eye... which would be disturbing.
     
  7. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    Raffi: I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but even a "circle" in the real world isn't a perfect circle, but a series of dots/lines that make it look round :);)
     
  8. Hedge

    Hedge Wish I was with her

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    Brizz, always being the Smart A. I see what you mean webby, but do we really want our games to look real or do we just want them to look "real?" I think that if a game looked and felt 100% realistic, then it wouldn't be the same as playing a game that only looked close to real.
     
  9. ExiT

    ExiT hella lurker

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    Though we focus on stuff on screen, there isn't any real depth there, so while stuff is out of focus, it still screwes with our depth perception.

    THe solution is 3d glasses :p
     
  10. m&ms

    m&ms Melts in your mouth, not in your hand.

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    nah, the solution is technology that projects the game into our subconscience, so it'd be like playing in a dream....dreams are based on reality so our minds would add the depth perception based on the information fed into them

    also a great solution when you're really tired and want to play longer ;)
     
  11. Hanover_Fist

    Hanover_Fist Hero

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    Well, since I've got some experience in the matter......

    Any object that is within roughly ~14 feet from you requires the lens of your eye to actually focus. Anything beyond that range your eye no longer changes shape to focus on it. What happens at that point is your memory takes over and you gauge distances based upon your experience. Like how large a tree is or how big a Semi Truck is, that visual memory allows you to gauge distances based on objects you are familiar with.

    Where I work, we've struggled with this for years. In our simulators we've had to reflect our images within fourteen feet, otherwise the image looks too flat and doesn't pass an FAA certification. The way we get that majical distance is we place the image on a big bubble above the pilot and he looks into a mirror straight in front of him about 7 feet away, so we get double the distance. He then gauges distance based upon the memory of how large objects are ie: control towers, types of airplanes, familar objects on the ground.

    So we do have "games" that pass for the real thing, so real infact that the FAA considers it "flight time". But these sims are really really expensive, and HUGE.

    It could be done in the home I suppose, if you could project an image that distance from you and still see it really well.

    Or if in your "contact lens" you can fool your eye into a focus where not you but your eye thought it was focused at infinity and you had familiar objects in the game.

    Good luck with tricking your eye not to focus.

    Maybe a sharp pencil, and just poke it just a little?

    Oh it didn't work?

    Well poke just a little harder this time...

    Ouch!...too much. *_O
     
  12. Raffi_B

    Raffi_B Administrator

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    Then, isn't it physically impossible to draw a perfect circle? By that logic, a circle is just as vague and incomprehensible as the concept of infinity... hmm... good point brizz.

    my head hurts
     
  13. Renegade Retard

    Renegade Retard Defender of the newbie

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    Denife "irony" - trying to make an game called "Unreal" look more real :con:

    :D
     
  14. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    :lol:

    hehe yep it's impossible by any means to create a perfect circle. Any curve, in fact, is not really a curve, but a series of miniscule lines that give the illusion of a curve :)
     
  15. Metakill

    Metakill Inhumane

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    What happened to virtual reality? It was the big thing in the mid-90's then dropped off the map (outside of university projects). In order to focus your eyes on a specific distance, you need a real concept of distance. For your brain to judge this distance, it requires two separate images, hence we have two eyes. Walla! Binocular vision.

    Anybody played UT2k3 (or any other games) with the 3D enhancement glasses you can order over the web? I'm reluctant to order stuff that isn't sold in any stores.
     
  16. Stryker8

    Stryker8 New Member

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    and how come movies look real on your tv screen then?
     
  17. W0RF

    W0RF BuF Greeter, News Bagger

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    Actually, screen blur is becoming pretty common now. It's one of the trumpeted features of GameCube graphics, and Madden/NCAA/etc games on all consoles have that "realism" feature when they focus on a player after a play and blur the stuff around him.
     
  18. Hanover_Fist

    Hanover_Fist Hero

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    This may be a little bit difficult to see, but there was a period that artists started using lenses
    make more accurate paintings:http://www.louvre.fr/img/photos/collec/peint/grande/inv1343.jpg.
    If you look closely, you'll see that the objects in the background are a little more out of focus than the
    objects on the desk, like the tools he's holding. You'll only see this effect if you're using a
    lens to project an image onto a canvas. Your un-aided eye can't detect anything out of focus.

    If you're interested there's a book on the subject, I saw it on 60 minutes:
    http://www.nexusjournal.com/reviews_v4n4-Domini.html

    From what I saw, David Hockney presented some pretty clear evidence that the Renaissance Masters
    used lenses, with lots of examples.

    They also interviewed some Hoity Toity Artsy types and they were basically all "STFU NOOB, TEH ARtists
    were teh good, they dint use teh lenzez". (only because they didn't want their art devalued).

    It kinda goes along with Worfs point, things out of focus in the background is more of a trick, to give the illusion of depth. We're just used to it because of Movies and TV, and lenses being so common.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2003
  19. JaFO

    JaFO bugs are features too ...

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    I say : screw lenses and give me a true 3D-monitor ... AFAIK they *do* exist, altough they're only used for research-purposes and are hellishly expensive.

    And as for tv/movies looking 'real' ... it's because they're not as perfect as computer-generated images often are.
     
  20. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    heck yah let me run around in a holodeck for a while :)
     

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