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Why do some people hate RA?
- Thread starter Keganator
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Ok my reasons which I do not like RA as it is now.
First let me say that Keganator I appreciate your civil attitude in this disgreement.
Basically I only have one problem with RA, and that is the way stamina is done.
I have no objections to the aiming, as it does make sense to not be able to stare into an ACOG while sprinting, and besides at ranges of less than 50 or so yards you shouldn't need it anyways. (To those who are like 50yrds...you suck..I hit at 150!..remember you play RA) At long range, the aiming thing is probably a good way to hamper snipers (like maps such as vietnam or atoll where snipers generally lead easily). So no prob here with the added bob or the right click restricitions.
But the stamina....man. This will be the main reason ppl who have never tried RA do not like it. Keganator you wondered how many people who played Inf tried RA. I'd like to reverse that. Do any of you go back to Inf, or do you all stick to AFA2?
If you did try Inf again, the feeling you get would be the same as what I feel when i go to RA. Its like a fish out of water.
I find it amazingly frustrating to not be able to sprint across the bridge on kosovo, and have any sort of decent stamina left. I am used to periods of maybe a minute on full sprint followed by two or three minutes walking to recover. As is everyone I play with. Certain styles of play come out of this. But RA eliminates the rusher completely, and in all its applications. Inevitably, because we cant move, this leads to camping.
Let me define GOOD camping and BAD camping as I see it.
Good camping is when you think or know that someone is close by, or following you, and you take up a position to shoot him as he comes along. This is smart and a fine kill.
Bad camping is when you spend the entire game in some god forsaken corner (like a dark alley on dockside), with no idea of where anyone is, until you see someone and you shoot them. This does not improve you at all...in fact once people are aware of your camping grounds you are dead meat.
Not being able to move, or getting tired so frequently will lead to BAD camping. I'm not accusing anyone, I really cant, seeing as how both campers have the same result, and its hard to tell which is which.
man i'm rambling on...anywhos....I think sprinting needs to be improved in RA
but then again, seeing as how I probably wont play RA while Inf is around, you dont have to take me seriously
First let me say that Keganator I appreciate your civil attitude in this disgreement.
Basically I only have one problem with RA, and that is the way stamina is done.
I have no objections to the aiming, as it does make sense to not be able to stare into an ACOG while sprinting, and besides at ranges of less than 50 or so yards you shouldn't need it anyways. (To those who are like 50yrds...you suck..I hit at 150!..remember you play RA) At long range, the aiming thing is probably a good way to hamper snipers (like maps such as vietnam or atoll where snipers generally lead easily). So no prob here with the added bob or the right click restricitions.
But the stamina....man. This will be the main reason ppl who have never tried RA do not like it. Keganator you wondered how many people who played Inf tried RA. I'd like to reverse that. Do any of you go back to Inf, or do you all stick to AFA2?
If you did try Inf again, the feeling you get would be the same as what I feel when i go to RA. Its like a fish out of water.
I find it amazingly frustrating to not be able to sprint across the bridge on kosovo, and have any sort of decent stamina left. I am used to periods of maybe a minute on full sprint followed by two or three minutes walking to recover. As is everyone I play with. Certain styles of play come out of this. But RA eliminates the rusher completely, and in all its applications. Inevitably, because we cant move, this leads to camping.
Let me define GOOD camping and BAD camping as I see it.
Good camping is when you think or know that someone is close by, or following you, and you take up a position to shoot him as he comes along. This is smart and a fine kill.
Bad camping is when you spend the entire game in some god forsaken corner (like a dark alley on dockside), with no idea of where anyone is, until you see someone and you shoot them. This does not improve you at all...in fact once people are aware of your camping grounds you are dead meat.
Not being able to move, or getting tired so frequently will lead to BAD camping. I'm not accusing anyone, I really cant, seeing as how both campers have the same result, and its hard to tell which is which.
man i'm rambling on...anywhos....I think sprinting needs to be improved in RA
but then again, seeing as how I probably wont play RA while Inf is around, you dont have to take me seriously
Er..... DallasStarsRule, do you think maybe it's your playing style that's at fault, not RA. A whole minute at full sprint? wtf? The idea is to walk or jog, conserve your stamina so you can have a short burst to sprint to cover when you need it. Sprinting around the map non-stop isn't what INF is about
not everybody likes RA, some want more quake style playing, others think RA isnt the answer to the problem.... i think these are the 2 biggest me-hates-RA-groups
I can say that the autohipping of a weapon when you sprint is in RA version 2 and is a welcome addition. Many may find that they sprint more often because they don't have to manually hip their weapon.
I don't know if many remember back when stamina worked in INF. I think it was 2.85.2 or .3. You couldn't run a lap around EP, but instead had to watch your guage. This is just the same. Sprinting in combat boots and fatigues with weapons and ammo is an experience that must be had to understand. It's ungainly, awkward, and uncomfortable. It's also damn tiring. With RA, I was able to sprint for ~25 secs, which got me about one street of EP. Without RA, I was able to sprint for ~120 secs and made one complete lap of EP (following the white lines) and carrying the default M16 loadout. There is something seriously wrong when people use sprinting as their default movement method. It may as well be called 'forward'.
I jump on regular servers from time to time to see what it's like, and see if the atmosphere has changed. And I feel like a fish out of water, just as you do. Prone is entirely unused, I only saw someone walking when they were near zero stamina, and the push was to move as fast as possible. Some would call me a camper because I was leaning around walls instead of sprinting around them (I assume they were newbies). People were in an incredible rush to go and die, and then following with 'zzzzz' or 'GoGoGo' messages (again mostly newbies) for those with a survival instinct. It was like that on MUF, SOB, and Onecall.
I just don't see the appeal for constant Lightning Rounds, where people count the number of people they killed before being killed instead of attempting to survive. I'm glad they will restructure the scoreboard further to sort by number of deaths (and not kills) to help emphasize survivability as a desirable trait.
I wonder though, if the stamina loss was reduced (but not to near the level in vanilla INF) in RA ver 2 and the autohipping was available, how many would change their mind about RA?
I don't know if many remember back when stamina worked in INF. I think it was 2.85.2 or .3. You couldn't run a lap around EP, but instead had to watch your guage. This is just the same. Sprinting in combat boots and fatigues with weapons and ammo is an experience that must be had to understand. It's ungainly, awkward, and uncomfortable. It's also damn tiring. With RA, I was able to sprint for ~25 secs, which got me about one street of EP. Without RA, I was able to sprint for ~120 secs and made one complete lap of EP (following the white lines) and carrying the default M16 loadout. There is something seriously wrong when people use sprinting as their default movement method. It may as well be called 'forward'.
I jump on regular servers from time to time to see what it's like, and see if the atmosphere has changed. And I feel like a fish out of water, just as you do. Prone is entirely unused, I only saw someone walking when they were near zero stamina, and the push was to move as fast as possible. Some would call me a camper because I was leaning around walls instead of sprinting around them (I assume they were newbies). People were in an incredible rush to go and die, and then following with 'zzzzz' or 'GoGoGo' messages (again mostly newbies) for those with a survival instinct. It was like that on MUF, SOB, and Onecall.
I just don't see the appeal for constant Lightning Rounds, where people count the number of people they killed before being killed instead of attempting to survive. I'm glad they will restructure the scoreboard further to sort by number of deaths (and not kills) to help emphasize survivability as a desirable trait.
I wonder though, if the stamina loss was reduced (but not to near the level in vanilla INF) in RA ver 2 and the autohipping was available, how many would change their mind about RA?
The stamina loss is rather large, but it is very appropriate, and if properly conserved for the OH ****! sitations, then I almost always have some available. And yes, I've played on other servers than AFA2...it's just not as fun. The matches take waaay to little time
D). With big maps, goals (CTF!!! gotta get working on that new CTF mode...) and RA, the matches do take longer...but you also tend to live longer, especially if you are being careful and working with your team.Maybe if people wern't used to 15 rounds of play being one match, they'd like it better. I've proposed reducing the match length to 1 battle, but 3 or 5 would be really good numbers too for the length of time an RA match lasts.
Now, with maps like Atoll, if there was a goal and the teams wanted to sneak in, the size is very apropriate; it's possible to sneak around, but you're also likely to encounter an enemy.
If people don't like RA because of the time it takes to play a match, then maybe they really are looking for that 'instant gratification' gametype that deathmatch and vanilla UT is all about. Infiltration isn't supposed to be about that, IMHO.
Originally posted by Keganator
The matches take waaay to little time
Matchs on an ra server take forever, but the "true" time spent playing is the same. RA bloats a game with white space. All that extra time it takes to play an RA game is a waste because it was just emtpy time. Empty time walking from one end of the map to the other because someone feels the need to camp in the corner of the map. It isn't like RA is 10+ more minutes of gun fire. It isn't at all. It is 10+ more minutes of walking to a location. Boring? If it was 10+ more minutes of action it would be fine. The only real reason you live longer is because it takes so long to spot your enemy.
And actually you don't live longer on small maps like Siberia. The game length on a map like Siberia is the same when playing RA or normal INF. That just reinforces my point about how RA just bloats game time with movement. Because a map on EP will last an hour on RA and it could last 20 min on a normal server. And 20 min is even too long. But on a small map with a reasonable amout of area to cover the game is the same.
If AFA2's map rotation was the following:
Siberia
Bosnian Winter
Peru
Arsenal
(any other map that size)
then i'd play there because the maps are the right size for the speed. Even Sicily is kind of too big. Although Sicily is do-able because it is the best inf map ever. So add that to the list
I just could never force myself to play a map like Vietnam on AFA2. That is redicilous. What a waste of time, don't you poeple have anything better to do then waste an hour of your day WALKING around a map?? If you were playing a 64 player game then that would work, but you play 8 on 8, at best.. blah.
Slow games need small maps. A slow game with huge maps will have little to no audience. Unless that game supports a massive amount of players.
The stanima was my choice. I made it strict on purpose. But here is something people haven't seemed to pick up on yet - if you burn your stanima to the bottom at the beginning of the round, you don't stand much of a chance of getting back to full, unless you lay down in the middle of the street breathing heavily.
That is planned.
If you do not burn bast the middle of your stanima bar, you will find that it is much easier to keep your stanima full. IE running short stretches instead of running yourself ragged. Makes sense to me. I keep it strict to avoid abuse, and multi-weapon loadouts will hurt you ALOT.
To get the effect I wanted, the stanima drain is not double, not triple, but aproximately five times the old rate. I find it odd that it had to be that much. The top running speed is basically unchanged - but it is more dependant on bulk now.
Browcow, I don't even know what you are talking about. At short ranges like siberia, a fast stanima drain won't make a difference. I could run in and blast you from the hip. Your references to skill do not make any additions to the arguement, as it is a well known fact that good players will always be good players. No matter what the rules. I never get tired in ra games, unless I am really screwed or am trying to jump a wall of crates.
Keg, the team, to my knowlage, is not making any changes to the scope sensitvity. None. The only related change is the zoom-modifying-the-bob bug, which has been fixed. This might provide an interesting problem - the dominance of scopes on every map. Just like in 2.85.0-3-5. Thats what RA originated from.
The scope sensitivity issue is by far the most hated one, but that is also something I do not want to budge on. I may relax it a bit once I have a scope-jiggle-thing, but then standing shooting will be just as hard, and it will be that way regardless of sensitvity.
As for the length of game times, I have to disagree with everyone. Games last just as long with or without ra, for TDM always ends up the same damn way - the last 3 people wander around until they find each other. RA does not make this wait much longer as far as I can tell. AFA2 runs some rather large maps, and that is the source of the wait.
You like ra, thats great. I look forward to seeing you on the servers. You don't, then theres not much I can do. Im not going to change things just to get a larger fanbase, as that would be compromising my goals for it in the first place. I may, in time, relax the stanima drain, in favor of another method of doing things.
But I am NOT here to make everyone happy. I am not going to sit here and defend every point of my mod, unless someone feels that some feature is unrealistic. The best I can hope is that keg here can convince you that it is better this way.
Ive played pub servers, and a few clanskirmishes. I know what its like out there. When I see people jump into the air and start firing the shotgun, I get pissed off. I came here to play a realism game, not something else. If I wanted something else, I have games that have far better depth, graphics, speed, tactics, and have the added bonus of running faster than 22FPS on my computer.
Im here for my damn piece of realisim.
That is planned.
If you do not burn bast the middle of your stanima bar, you will find that it is much easier to keep your stanima full. IE running short stretches instead of running yourself ragged. Makes sense to me. I keep it strict to avoid abuse, and multi-weapon loadouts will hurt you ALOT.
To get the effect I wanted, the stanima drain is not double, not triple, but aproximately five times the old rate. I find it odd that it had to be that much. The top running speed is basically unchanged - but it is more dependant on bulk now.
Browcow, I don't even know what you are talking about. At short ranges like siberia, a fast stanima drain won't make a difference. I could run in and blast you from the hip. Your references to skill do not make any additions to the arguement, as it is a well known fact that good players will always be good players. No matter what the rules. I never get tired in ra games, unless I am really screwed or am trying to jump a wall of crates.
Keg, the team, to my knowlage, is not making any changes to the scope sensitvity. None. The only related change is the zoom-modifying-the-bob bug, which has been fixed. This might provide an interesting problem - the dominance of scopes on every map. Just like in 2.85.0-3-5. Thats what RA originated from.
The scope sensitivity issue is by far the most hated one, but that is also something I do not want to budge on. I may relax it a bit once I have a scope-jiggle-thing, but then standing shooting will be just as hard, and it will be that way regardless of sensitvity.
As for the length of game times, I have to disagree with everyone. Games last just as long with or without ra, for TDM always ends up the same damn way - the last 3 people wander around until they find each other. RA does not make this wait much longer as far as I can tell. AFA2 runs some rather large maps, and that is the source of the wait.
You like ra, thats great. I look forward to seeing you on the servers. You don't, then theres not much I can do. Im not going to change things just to get a larger fanbase, as that would be compromising my goals for it in the first place. I may, in time, relax the stanima drain, in favor of another method of doing things.
But I am NOT here to make everyone happy. I am not going to sit here and defend every point of my mod, unless someone feels that some feature is unrealistic. The best I can hope is that keg here can convince you that it is better this way.
Ive played pub servers, and a few clanskirmishes. I know what its like out there. When I see people jump into the air and start firing the shotgun, I get pissed off. I came here to play a realism game, not something else. If I wanted something else, I have games that have far better depth, graphics, speed, tactics, and have the added bonus of running faster than 22FPS on my computer.
Im here for my damn piece of realisim.
Stamina is exactly where it should be at. If you need to book it to the other side of EP, you will be jogging. Any one who thinks that sprint is the primary method of moving your left foot in front of your right is going to run out of stamina, and they are going to complain. The AFA's input into RA, which yurch was kind enough to accept, is that of real life military experience, but ya know what? I would think most people would know what sprinting in RL does to your body. It's called sprinting for a reason, and is there when you feel the need to use it. However, it will not be there at all if you continue to waste it. The concept of having to little stamina is beyond me, as I have been using perhaps one of the heaviest RL loadouts possible. And I have no issues with it, whatsoever.
If you are running out of stamina, it is because of two reasons:
Either you have an over inflated, unrealistic loadout, or you are constantly mashing down on your sprint key.
Walk when you can, jog if you have to, sprint if yer fukked.
If you are running out of stamina, it is because of two reasons:
Either you have an over inflated, unrealistic loadout, or you are constantly mashing down on your sprint key.
Walk when you can, jog if you have to, sprint if yer fukked.
Whups.. I hope I didn't imply that the team was changing scope sensitivity, cause I didn't mean it. I meant to say basically what you said.
Come on, where are the rest of the RA haters? Or do they just not have any reason to hate it? Someone said that lots of people in ILCR would leave if it turned more like RA...I really want to know.
For clarification I had read in major magazines that army rangers are expected to be able to operate with loadouts that are upwards of 50lbs.
If you watch the news on troops sent to afganistan you will see that each soldier is carrying a decked out M16 and sharing a SAW, as well as sidearms and such.
If you watch the news on troops sent to afganistan you will see that each soldier is carrying a decked out M16 and sharing a SAW, as well as sidearms and such.
quote
Er..... DallasStarsRule, do you think maybe it's your playing style that's at fault, not RA. A whole minute at full sprint? wtf? The idea is to walk or jog, conserve your stamina so you can have a short burst to sprint to cover when you need it. Sprinting around the map non-stop isn't what INF is about
listen like i said
playing on an RA server for me is like you playing on a Inf server. A fish out of water.
The styles are vastely different.
We all do what is fun and satisfying for us. When I shoot 3 guys in RA I am not satisfied. So I dont play RA.
End of story. No need to complain about styles or anything, since in my mind RA is a completely different game.
Er..... DallasStarsRule, do you think maybe it's your playing style that's at fault, not RA. A whole minute at full sprint? wtf? The idea is to walk or jog, conserve your stamina so you can have a short burst to sprint to cover when you need it. Sprinting around the map non-stop isn't what INF is about
listen like i said
playing on an RA server for me is like you playing on a Inf server. A fish out of water.
The styles are vastely different.
We all do what is fun and satisfying for us. When I shoot 3 guys in RA I am not satisfied. So I dont play RA.
End of story. No need to complain about styles or anything, since in my mind RA is a completely different game.
That's it?
I knew they were pussies. Of the rangers I have met, they were carrying the same damn things I was carrying, except they had more MRE's. The standard load is around 80lbs.
Don't believe everything ya read, mate.
WellÉ
Hmmmm, since I find arguing extrainous, even if I winÉ
Has anyone ever considered making RA clinet side? That could solve the problem between those how don't like it and those who do.
[edit]
or rather the scope feature clinet side
[/edit]
Hmmmm, since I find arguing extrainous, even if I winÉ
Has anyone ever considered making RA clinet side? That could solve the problem between those how don't like it and those who do.
[edit]
or rather the scope feature clinet side
[/edit]
Last edited:
Re: WellÉ
Client side? The hell? Who is going to self-handicap themselves? The point is to limit the players.
It probably could be done, but the point of it would be nil, seeing as those who like it play for a more realistic game, and would have to deal with the unrealistic movements of their enemies, and their teammates, thus killing the whole experience.