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What was your least favorite aspect of TAM/Freon?

Discussion in 'Unreal Tournament' started by -AEnubis-, May 19, 2014.

?

Least favorite?

  1. Round based play (waiting to spawn)

    5 vote(s)
    27.8%
  2. Loaded Spawns (no map control)

    1 vote(s)
    5.6%
  3. Challenge mode (Negative feedback)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. No implicit objective (powerups dictate flow and eliminate "run and hide")

    2 vote(s)
    11.1%
  5. Ammo restricitons

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Lack of ammo restrictions

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Problems inherent to 2kx (open maps, adren, hit scan prevalecne)

    4 vote(s)
    22.2%
  8. Mechanics changes (adren mods, lowered shock combo ammo cost, lowered SG self damage)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. Lack of enhanced Netcode

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. Other: Explain in post

    6 vote(s)
    33.3%
  1. Arnox

    Arnox UT99/2004 Mod Crazy

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    *shrug* Well, just looking at the two gametypes by themselves, I saw nothing wrong with them personally.
     
  2. -AEnubis-

    -AEnubis- fps greater than star

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    If anything it would help me to be more specific if I decide to hold this poll to a larger sample size. My question phrasing wasn't perfect.

    What I probably should have said was "design virtue" or something along those lines alluding to purely the game design itself.

    The player base was certainly attracted by some of the design decisions that were listed in the poll, so it's a pretty blurry line.

    I'm not necessarily for a version of TAM for this sequel, I'd rather see the base TDM game improved, and not have any demand for such a mod. That said, if I can't stop the community from modding one up themselves (see BTA), I would much rather have say in how a next official version is designed, so as to eliminate both some of my gripes, and general community gripes about the mod.

    I really have no idea as to how that would even go, as I was at the bottom of the proverbial totem poll, and don't know myself how to code, so despite having my name in the 3spn readme, it's not like I'm free to make anything happen anyways. I still have contact with Dustin and Mike, but I own no rights, and 3spn is basically "disbanded" as far as I know. I also don't know how to get a hold of Eric, who coded and co-designed Freon with me.

    Basically if TAM is going to exist, I'd like to mitigate it's potential "damage" for lack of a better term.
     
  3. Selerox

    Selerox COR AD COR LOQVITVR

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    I'd rather play DDOM than TAM.

    TAM was about as fun as watching paint dry.

    Gametypes like TAM deliberately increase the gap between new players and experienced ones, and as such I won't play or support it.
     
  4. Hunter

    Hunter BeyondUnreal Newsie

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    This, if I want TAM like gameplay I will play CS and bore myself to tears.
     
  5. Uncouth

    Uncouth Nothing to see here

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    I hate that round based crap, I hate waiting to respawn. Basically why I don't play Counter Strike.
     
  6. Al

    Al Reaper

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    Some people like TAM and some people REALLY fucking hate it. Did TAM sneak in your house and fuck your wives/husbands?

    I don't get it.
     
  7. Skold

    Skold Sexy!

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    Round-based games are awesome because you can drink a beverage between the rounds. Also, Zounds.
     
  8. DeathBooger

    DeathBooger Malcolm's Sugar Daddy

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    It fine to not like something, but treating TAM like the virus that killed UT2004 is going a little overboard. If anything it gave an extended life to something that was already dying. If a new TAM is made you can't really fault people if they gravitate towards it. Just like they can't really fault you for not liking it.
     
  9. Renegade Retard

    Renegade Retard Defender of the newbie

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    The OP asks what the community doesn't like about TAM, eliciting negative feedback.

    TAM has always been a controversial gametype within the community for numerous reasons.

    And folks are wondering why so much negativity in this thread? The thread is delivering exactly what was asked.
     
  10. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    I think people feel that way because around the time TAM came out pretty much all the populated vanilla TDM servers switched to TAM. As mentioned, TAM is pretty polarizing, so whoever left because of it probably has a sour feeling about it.
     
  11. Dark Pulse

    Dark Pulse Dolla, Dolla. Holla, Holla.

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    Do your shots between deaths like a man, you sissy.

    Get killed? Take a shot.

    Get headshot? Down a double.
     
  12. Selerox

    Selerox COR AD COR LOQVITVR

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    Sums it all up really.

    TAM didn't bring anyone into playing UT, and at the same time drove a lot of people away. That alone makes it worth not supporting.
     
  13. TWD

    TWD Cute and Cuddly

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    The game was already on its last leg when TAM really took off. It can't be blamed for driving people off. There were regular DM and CTF servers out there. Why didn't anyone play on those?
     
  14. -AEnubis-

    -AEnubis- fps greater than star

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    Funny thing is, I got very little constructive feedback from either camp, which I would hope I wouldn't have to ask specifically for, here at BU.
     
  15. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    I think you got the only feedback that could have made any difference, though. 2k4 mechanics were probably the worst thing about TAM, it just emphasized the worst things about the game and so the only people that stuck around and played it (over DM or TDM at least) were the people that could take advantage of those mechanics, which led to it being stuffed with arrogant a-holes :p

    In a future version, I don't know how you could fix that. I think something like TAM is always going to put a microscope on the best and worst things of any game it is in. That's because everything outside of the core mechanics, the weapon balance, and the level design are completely taken away. You could call that a good thing, and maybe it is, but if those things aren't just right then people that care really won't appreciate it.
     
  16. -AEnubis-

    -AEnubis- fps greater than star

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    I wasn't expecting much. Really what prompted it is the CS comparisons, and the "waiting to play" complaints. I understand not liking that aspect of it, though why it bred such vehement hate is beyond me.

    If that was one of the main complaints, I could certainly dream up something better than LMS/CA as an alternative in a package.

    I personally disliked the servers that jacked up starting ammo too much, and learned to hate the lack of some kind of items to drive confrontation. It took a few special players for me to see it, but I wished we hadn't made our pickups implementation optional.

    The other mistake I made in the poll was giving the fan's a way out of actually criticizing the game.
     
  17. dc

    dc

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    Ok, if we're going to talk strictly of settings of the mutator itself...I don't really know. Everything I dislike can be disabled, so there's not a whole lot to hate. I played TAM for the first time last year and I hated it because of all these weird adrenaline combos they added and the health handicap. I don't much care for the announcer things or the camping warnings filling up my screen either. It can all be shut off, but that doesn't seem to ever happen.

    I wish it was like clan arena in QL. Similar to TAM, but no adrenaline, no health handicap, etc.

    UTComp would've pretty much nailed it, but players didn't spawn together.
     
  18. -AEnubis-

    -AEnubis- fps greater than star

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    Yeah, some of MaStur's idea's for adrenaline were a bit misguided. Cool ideas, but there were already some adren that were barely getting used, so adding more to the pile seemed silly, and why we later "enhanced" speed and berserk. Forward iteration probably wouldn't have adren.

    I'll have to look at CA again.
     
  19. FuLLBLeeD

    FuLLBLeeD fart

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    TAM only worked in 2k4 because the weapon balance was super jank because of dodge jumping. With better balance and less hitscan emphasis the gametype as a whole just doesn't work as much as it did in 2k4; you can actually get kills in non-specific situations with projectile weapons.

    TAM worked in UT2004 because players felt empowered by being given Shock Rifle/LG by spawning with them instead of having to find them on the map. Of course, good weapon balance/no dodge jump circumvents this entirely and you're not completely screwed when you don't have a hitscan weapon.

    With better balance you can use most of the weapons to kill people; but at that point, why not play deathmatch? I really see why TAM was so popular in 2k4; being steamrolled because you didn't have a hitscan gun wasn't fun, so a gamemode that gave you every gun (and limited ammo) at the start gave newer players a fighting chance. This wasn't an issue in UT3, and it won't be an issue in the new game. You could argue that TAM doesn't teach good fundamentals because you're not learning how to control the best guns in the game from the opponent, but you could also argue a game where you're fucked if you don't have Shock/LG isn't fun. I really think with better weapon and movement balance newer players will gravitate away from this game mode since the entire arsenal of the game is viable and they'll actually be able to get kills with what they can pick up on the map.

    Since we're going to have a game with weapon variety, the only change I'd make is to give every gun less ammo, forcing players to use more than one weapon. You could encourage getting better with weapons you didn't feel comfortable this way.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2014
  20. Skold

    Skold Sexy!

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    As per usual, DP makes no sense. Is anyone really lining up 10 - 20 shots before they play?*

    *No

    Even if they did (and they are not) you need time to refill your glass. Idiot.

    UTComp was awesome with Zounds.
     

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