It's already in place, all weapons in 2.86 have a random based damage, just that receiving 2-3 weak bullets in a row is rare... I did survive 2 bullets from a m16 in INF, just not often, and i was barely alive...
What if players feared to get injured in Inf?
- Thread starter R-Force
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It's already in place, all weapons in 2.86 have a random based damage, just that receiving 2-3 weak bullets in a row is rare... I did survive 2 bullets from a m16 in INF, just not often, and i was barely alive...
Originally posted by Monk_Zero
That's only because I'm on the other team NTKB
I find that I go for cover when I take a wound, and firing is only done for effect (which is usually useless). I don't think that reaction would change if I had blurred vision or a weapon drop.
One thing I remember hearing is that the scoreboard for 2.87 will be ordered based on survivability entirely. Perhaps that may drive some sort of self preservation instinct.
Hehe you bastard your the one who I shoot 20 times and doesnt die
Anyway I guarentee you if the scoreboard is based on survivability than someone is going to make a mutator to use an older scoreboard. Guarenteed.
Oh, I don't doubt you there. But maybe there will be some community support for valuing survivability. It would really be a first for an online FPS for sure.
I agree 100% and think that the new scoreboard is an awsome idea. I personally would protest a server who added an old style scoreboard mutator because it takes that much more away from teamwork and surviving.
Doyve the Royve
Quite simply the best Royve around!
Lets come up with a few more random effects, maybe combine a few.
1. Tripping: Say you take a round to the leg, and because of andrenaline you don't feel it. You're in a firing position, you get up to run to your next position. You take a step with the injured leg, you fall prone.
1. Tripping: Say you take a round to the leg, and because of andrenaline you don't feel it. You're in a firing position, you get up to run to your next position. You take a step with the injured leg, you fall prone.
*cheap music* "I'm a survivooor, lalalalalaaaa"
:tup: to the ideas stated above . Now, Darkbls, GET YOUR JOB DONE ..... feignant
:tup: to the ideas stated above . Now, Darkbls, GET YOUR JOB DONE ..... feignant
Very cool idea.
At the very least, maybe they should consider doing something like in Undying. When you get hit it looks like blood splatter across your screen and your view gets knocked away from the direction of the hit. You have a second of disorientation which is quite uncomfortable when there is danger nearby.
At the very least, maybe they should consider doing something like in Undying. When you get hit it looks like blood splatter across your screen and your view gets knocked away from the direction of the hit. You have a second of disorientation which is quite uncomfortable when there is danger nearby.
The very reason why i want this to be completly random is to kill the "i know what will happen, i can deal with it". This mean both the offender and the defender have to worry about the small chance something bad happen. The attacker should always consider the chance the guy he shot might still be able to shoot back (or pull a dead man last shot), even if most of the time he might be crippled, while the guy shot at must not give up once he's hit because he's sure he won't be able to do anything... Yeah, it add some luck factor (things might work 90% of the time,but...), but in real life good and bad thing happen, even to the best or the worst of us... So to keep "on top", you have to make yourself a backup plan just in case...
I agree with removing the heath bar. Nobody knows how many bullets they can take before dying, so how is the heath bar realistic at all. Damage should be represented with physical effects on the player in the game. Nothing too elaborate with random effects need to be done, just a general effect of reduced speed, accuracy, and stamina (Keep it simple stupid!). Screen darkening would probably just be annoying, so I don't recommend that.
After recently seeing Black Hawk Down (a great movie by the way), I am reminded just how much damage a single bullet can do to the body. The weapons need to be balanced more effectively than with a simple damage per bullet model. A single shot to the legs or central torso should severly reduce your ability to fight back. A single round from either a m16 or a mp5 are going to do plenty of damage if it strikes you (certainly at close range). Perhaps with body armor there will be a reason the higher power rifle rounds would be more effective than the pistol rounds.
Sorry, my thoughts are kind of random and not well thought out.
After recently seeing Black Hawk Down (a great movie by the way), I am reminded just how much damage a single bullet can do to the body. The weapons need to be balanced more effectively than with a simple damage per bullet model. A single shot to the legs or central torso should severly reduce your ability to fight back. A single round from either a m16 or a mp5 are going to do plenty of damage if it strikes you (certainly at close range). Perhaps with body armor there will be a reason the higher power rifle rounds would be more effective than the pistol rounds.
Sorry, my thoughts are kind of random and not well thought out.
I believe that the random effects MUST BE annoying, so the players would do everything they can to avoid them... Thus they would seek cover, seek teammates help etc. to inflict the annoyance on their foes and minimise it on their side...
I know the team has plans for an advanced damage model, which should allow us to ditch the damage per bullet concept in the dust. I hope we see it soon.
in additon to the random effect i think it would be nice if your mobility was reduced.. like.. being stuck in prone.. not being able to stand up, or jump.. or not being able to control your breath (no more sniping) recoil being 2x the norm.. ect
we know that the UT engine does have detection areas for at least three areas of the body (head, chest, legs) so it's not that hard to imagine different types of damage per area.
At the very least i think that leg specific damage should effect movement. With body armor coming in, it'd be nice just to use the PSG (or lol a m9) to pop some tankman in the knees and force them to be stuck in the prone position till someone decides to finish them off.
we know that the UT engine does have detection areas for at least three areas of the body (head, chest, legs) so it's not that hard to imagine different types of damage per area.
At the very least i think that leg specific damage should effect movement. With body armor coming in, it'd be nice just to use the PSG (or lol a m9) to pop some tankman in the knees and force them to be stuck in the prone position till someone decides to finish them off.
I can't name many games that have tried to model damage realisticly (SOF is all cosmetic, Rainbow 6 series had a go, but only with minor effects).
One bullet is all it takes to screw you up - Try naming a place where you'd like to be hit with a 9mm if you had to be hit - not very easy (Although you'd probably rule out the head first off
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A realistic damage model would rock, All we need is someone to make a mutator for it to show how fun it would be.
One bullet is all it takes to screw you up - Try naming a place where you'd like to be hit with a 9mm if you had to be hit - not very easy (Although you'd probably rule out the head first off
.A realistic damage model would rock, All we need is someone to make a mutator for it to show how fun it would be.
Deus-Ex used a location damage system.. granted it wasn't realistic pre say.. but it was logical. I'd like to see something similar but a little different.
damage to an area higher in the hierachy would also effect to some degree the area's below it.
Damage to the arms would directly effect your ability to aim, espically sniping, or with automatic weapons. I think it also slowed down how fast you could perform actions like reloading, switching weapons, opening doors, and other actions that would fall under the general basis of "manipulation".
Leg damage obviously would effect your mobility. As i said. Minor damage would effect how fast you moved, and perhaps how drastic your view bobing would be (sim-limping). It'd also limit your jumping abilities, and if drastic enough reduce your movement to strictly prone locomotion.
Head damage... well duh if you didn't die somehow i think you'd be pretty fubar anyhow.
torso damage (hmm ponders thinking) would effect breathing, and would severly reduce stanima, and slightly reduce the. (recoil control, throwing distance, max running speed ect)
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Now here's where "my" system is a little unique. I try to simulate Blood loss, in addition to pure "damage". Each area of the body has it's own seperate health index. say 100pts represents a fully functioning, fully healthy area. 0 pts is a area that is completly FUBAR.
Lets take your legs for example. Lets say that you get shot in the legs with a 9mm. Ok now your legs are down to 80pts. In additon to your reduced mobility, you now have an open wound with blood loss. Blood loss would simply be a slow (right now) drain of life pts from your torso. (if your head, or torso reaches 0 you die).
As your legs take more damage, the wounds obviously get worse, and so does the rate at which you loose blood. (not to mention the more reduced mobility). Now the unique bit about this system is that you basically can't kill someone by shooting them in the legs or arms over and over. But the more damage the legs recieve the faster that person will bleed to death.. and if we allow damage to go into the neagtives, you can have some serious blood loss leading to a realitic and timely death.
So for example if you got robar'd in the leg. You wouln't immediatly die. You'd instantly have a useless leg, with a huge wound (just like in real life). The severe blood loss would quickly siphon life pts away from the torso. (there by reducing your stanima, and your breathing, making it difficult to aim) as your torso's life pts reach a certain level.. you go into shock. Your breathing is extreemly erractic, and your essentially dead meat. (why not say the character is dead already?) at this time you probably only have a few seconds left. maybe long enough to spray down an area with automatic fire.. maybe long enough to give out a few more commands, or msgs on enemy movement. Maybe long enough to pull a pin.. (you'd be too weak to throw it beyond a few feet though) or maybe push some buttons or whatever to complete the objective of the mission.. who knows.. point is that you have a few seconds to do something.. though it probably wont be effective in terms of combat.. but maybe your msgs might save your team.
damage to an area higher in the hierachy would also effect to some degree the area's below it.
Damage to the arms would directly effect your ability to aim, espically sniping, or with automatic weapons. I think it also slowed down how fast you could perform actions like reloading, switching weapons, opening doors, and other actions that would fall under the general basis of "manipulation".
Leg damage obviously would effect your mobility. As i said. Minor damage would effect how fast you moved, and perhaps how drastic your view bobing would be (sim-limping). It'd also limit your jumping abilities, and if drastic enough reduce your movement to strictly prone locomotion.
Head damage... well duh if you didn't die somehow i think you'd be pretty fubar anyhow.
torso damage (hmm ponders thinking) would effect breathing, and would severly reduce stanima, and slightly reduce the. (recoil control, throwing distance, max running speed ect)
---
Now here's where "my" system is a little unique. I try to simulate Blood loss, in addition to pure "damage". Each area of the body has it's own seperate health index. say 100pts represents a fully functioning, fully healthy area. 0 pts is a area that is completly FUBAR.
Lets take your legs for example. Lets say that you get shot in the legs with a 9mm. Ok now your legs are down to 80pts. In additon to your reduced mobility, you now have an open wound with blood loss. Blood loss would simply be a slow (right now) drain of life pts from your torso. (if your head, or torso reaches 0 you die).
As your legs take more damage, the wounds obviously get worse, and so does the rate at which you loose blood. (not to mention the more reduced mobility). Now the unique bit about this system is that you basically can't kill someone by shooting them in the legs or arms over and over. But the more damage the legs recieve the faster that person will bleed to death.. and if we allow damage to go into the neagtives, you can have some serious blood loss leading to a realitic and timely death.
So for example if you got robar'd in the leg. You wouln't immediatly die. You'd instantly have a useless leg, with a huge wound (just like in real life). The severe blood loss would quickly siphon life pts away from the torso. (there by reducing your stanima, and your breathing, making it difficult to aim) as your torso's life pts reach a certain level.. you go into shock. Your breathing is extreemly erractic, and your essentially dead meat. (why not say the character is dead already?) at this time you probably only have a few seconds left. maybe long enough to spray down an area with automatic fire.. maybe long enough to give out a few more commands, or msgs on enemy movement. Maybe long enough to pull a pin.. (you'd be too weak to throw it beyond a few feet though) or maybe push some buttons or whatever to complete the objective of the mission.. who knows.. point is that you have a few seconds to do something.. though it probably wont be effective in terms of combat.. but maybe your msgs might save your team.
Sounds like Action Quake 2, when you shot someone in the stomach with the sniper rifle they survived for around 4 seconds (it took 5 to bandage). Always very ammusing.
DEFkon:
Cool idea, and IMHO very realistical(I always thought it weird how you can kill someone immediately by blowing off their little toe).
However (IIRC) there is one problem:
IIRC, UT can only have hitboxes defined by their vertical height (so u could have a hitbox for legs but not one for the left leg and one for the right leg).
Cool idea, and IMHO very realistical(I always thought it weird how you can kill someone immediately by blowing off their little toe).
However (IIRC) there is one problem:
IIRC, UT can only have hitboxes defined by their vertical height (so u could have a hitbox for legs but not one for the left leg and one for the right leg).
even so.. it's a step in the right direction.
by actually having game effecting consequences for being shot, you'd see more "health conscience" players. Compared with the current system in which you go from 100% battle ready to -ouch-ouch-ouch.. i'm still 100% battle ready- ouch ouch dead.
Currently there's no punishment for being injured or shot, so you see people taking insane risks (rushing). realistically if a "rusher" got nicked in the leg by one of his victems.. his rushing days would be over. So it's not that you wouldn't see the tactic of rushing disapear by implenting a "Damage = handicap" system. but it wouldn't be as prevelent because it's not a tactic that could be easily maintained.
You'd actually see people consider the big question when the get the drop on an enemy. Do i open fire now, and hope i'll kill him on the first shot. Or should i get to some cover, and then engage?
by actually having game effecting consequences for being shot, you'd see more "health conscience" players. Compared with the current system in which you go from 100% battle ready to -ouch-ouch-ouch.. i'm still 100% battle ready- ouch ouch dead.
Currently there's no punishment for being injured or shot, so you see people taking insane risks (rushing). realistically if a "rusher" got nicked in the leg by one of his victems.. his rushing days would be over. So it's not that you wouldn't see the tactic of rushing disapear by implenting a "Damage = handicap" system. but it wouldn't be as prevelent because it's not a tactic that could be easily maintained.
You'd actually see people consider the big question when the get the drop on an enemy. Do i open fire now, and hope i'll kill him on the first shot. Or should i get to some cover, and then engage?
They have an advanced damage model in Operation Flashpoint. If you get capped in the legs, you can't get up. If you get shot in the arm, you can hit the broad side of a barn door farther than 100m. I don't think they slow you down that much though. When you're injured your breathing goes up alot, and you have to rest more.
But you also have medics in OFP.
I think that you should have to re-build your stamina after being hit. Not just partially, but all of it or almost all. If I was hit by a bullet while running, I think I'd fall on my ass.
But you also have medics in OFP.
I think that you should have to re-build your stamina after being hit. Not just partially, but all of it or almost all. If I was hit by a bullet while running, I think I'd fall on my ass.